In Quest of Truth - Q&A with Shri Babaji

Anyone interested in meditation will find this series of questions and answers of interest. A Realized Meditation Master, Shri Babaji (Shri Shivarudra Balayogi Maharaj), answers questions from people around the world on meditation and spirituality. His spontaneous answers are based on the wisdom gained from his own direct, first-hand experience of years of intense meditation (Tapas) and the teachings of his Guru, Shri Shivabalayogi Maharaj. He explains how meditation works and the purpose and benefits of spirituality in clear, simple terms. These recordings are taken from a live online meditation class that Babaji holds every Saturday. They are precious opportunities to receive direct guidance from a Realized Master. To register please visit: https://www.shivarudrabalayogi.org/en/online-satsang

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In Quest of Truth - Q&A with Shri Babaji

Myths and Misconceptions about Spirituality | In Quest of Truth - Q&A with Shri Babaji No.181

July 02, 2024 • Shiva Rudra Balayogi • Season 1 • Episode 181

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Myths and Misconceptions of Spirituality | In Quest of Truth - Q&A with Shri Babaji No.181
Recorded on 8 June 2024 with worldwide participants

0:00 Intro
0:06 What is the basic aim of the spiritual path?
2:17 Is the spiritual practice to bring the attention away from the thoughts?
5:00 Should we expect experiences within our meditation?
13:12 Would a real miracle make one go towards peace?
16:18 What is a real spiritual awakening?
25:04 Have we imagined consciousness to be in the body?
35:37 When starting on the spiritual path, should one simply practice this meditation?
40:29 Do we need to believe in anything in order to practice meditation?
41:55 What is a Yogi?
43:35 How does a Yogi operate in the world?
48:55 Does a Self Realised Yogi stop having dreams?
50:20 How and why did the Vedas come into existence?
53:30 How to decipher incomprehensible spiritual experiences?
56:29 What is purusharta, self-efforts?
1:01:55 What is the heart?
1:02:52 How to overcome fear?
1:03:48 How to avoid anger?
1:04:59 What are the benefits of worshipping deities?
1:05:54 Is having a target in the material world counterproductive to spirituality?
1:07:07 How to control the seemingly infinite thoughts in meditation?

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In Quest of Truth – Q&A with Shri Babaji No. 181

Myths and Misconceptions about Spirituality

Recorded on 8 June 2024 with worldwide participants
Length: 1hour 9mins 14secs

You tube Link: https://youtu.be/V1yXfXT45MU

Start of Questions and Answers

Question 1: What is the basic aim of the spiritual path?

00.00

To start with, Babaji, just to clarify as there may be some misconceptions as to what the essence of spirituality is: what is the basic aim? What's the purpose of going on the spiritual path?

Babaji Maharaj:

The very name of spirituality has been given; it is to know yourself. Because you are in the infinite form, like a spirit type. Not visible to the naked eye, yet you are there. Just like the mind; the mind, apart from infinite form, we can call it is in the spirit form also. It is not visible to the naked eyes, yet it is there, but you don't know much about the mind because all your focus is on the imaginations that the mind carries within itself. So, to know about this, and now also our own form, our own existence, is the ultimate truth of this mind.

In this body, what we call it as mind is actually ‘we’. For that I have told, amongst millions of thoughts you have in the mind, there is one thing that is arising, it is the consciousness of existence, your own existence, which is not an imagined thought but a reality. To know about this, to become aware of that, to be in that consciously always, to remain in yourself is what is the spirituality or spiritual practices prescribed so that you can know yourself better and you can become aware of yourself that you are beyond the birth and death of the physical body. This is important to understand.

Question 2: Is the spiritual practice to bring the attention away from the thoughts?

00:02:21

Thank you, Babaji. Babaji, you mentioned that the attention is on the thoughts, so the spiritual practice really is to bring the attention away from the thoughts on to you yourself. Is that correct, Babaji, and could Babaji just explain how that is achieved?

Babaji Maharaj:

Exactly, you are right. I have given an example of watching a movie on the screen. When you are watching, your consciousness gets sucked so much deeply into the movie. Everything that is happening in the movie appears to be so real, and you are likely to see yourself in a role in that movie. Likely too that you totally forget or have forgotten that you are sitting and watching a movie. Now the practice is, so that you bring back your attention from the movie and become aware that you are just sitting and watching the movie, you are not at all connected. Nothing is happening to you. So, no birth is happening, no death is happening, yet you seem consciously to be so much involved; one considers “We are going to die” and “We are born”, all these things happen.

To know this truth is the spiritual practice, so that you remove your attention from the thoughts that are in the mind, from the visions that are in the mind, silence the mind. That is the technique of the meditation we give. Silently when you watch, all the matter that is in the mind dissolves. When it dissolves, then the mind's attention goes to itself. That itself is what is the consciousness of existence that is there - always you have this feeling. All of you are able to feel this that you exist, but just now because the consciousness has shifted to the body, you are unable to be aware of your real Self in the way that you are. Instead, you are aware of the physical body as yourself, that wrong thing has happened. So everything happening to the physical body or anything connected to the physical body, surroundings that we are all doing get sucked into the consciousness. That is the reason that we have forgotten ourselves, we can tell like that. So, to remove that and bring back the consciousness or the attention back to the Self is the spiritual practice.

Question 3: Should we expect experiences within our meditation?

00:05:01

Thank you, Babaji. Some people may expect an experience within their meditation and that actually that will signify that they are on the spiritual path going into maybe like a sort of trance-like state. And Babaji, you just mentioned the feeling that you exist, but the feeling is not an experience per se, is it? Could Babaji talk about that and what we should expect within the meditation?

Babaji Maharaj:

Yeah, I have seen generally ‘experience’ means people expect some vision to happen or some such experience connected to this world or matter in the form of that imagination to happen, then they want to consider that as an experience in meditation. Whereas, if a good experience of a noble nature and Divine, like that if it happens, it is not a bad idea, but you have to use that to remain focused, single pointedly when you are watching in between the eyebrows, that is what I always advise. Don't get carried away with the vision, just watch. Even if a good comes or bad comes, anything that happens, just watch. Don't get carried away with the vision as then you start analyzing, and then you start claiming, “I had this vision”, “Oh, I had that vision.” They start claiming as if they are progressing very well in meditation, but actually they are stuck. It is a stumbling block for progressive meditation.

A real meditation is when you are able to achieve serenity within the mind, quietness, the mind becoming totally silent, giving up all thoughts and visions within itself in every way. That is what we were taught. We were taught by our Guru, even in Tapas also that any vision or any manifestation - why I call a vision and a manifestation - they are the difference in the megapixel of the picture, potency or what you want to call it. If it's a manifestation, it is as physical as the world that you see around you, so with that type of thing also when it happens, do not react. That is one thing the master taught us, do not react.

It can be of two types, good and bad, always. It means such a vision or such a manifestation can be very tempting sometimes or it can be very threatening - either way, just don't bother. If it is threatening, a firm conviction that this universe and all the visions, everything is impermanent and it will disappear. That detachment, what is known as vairagya will be very, very helpful. If it is tempting also, we must be aware that it is only temporary or impermanent and it won't give a permanent happiness or a Self Realization. Thus, both good or bad can become a stumbling block for which we need to ignore and just keep watching.

Like this, in other words, also I have used in another way of language, siddhis might come during Tapas, but you must ignore them, don't get carried away with the siddhis. That means the same thing, say, if a Divine vision happens, the significance that we understood from Swamiji's teaching was even if God comes in front of you, do not ask for anything that God can give, ask that you want God only, because anything that God can give is impermanent, it will disappear after some time. Only God is permanent, Eternal Entity. That is what is the Self Realization, you want to become one with It - ask for that only. Do not compromise for anything else. Like that we were trained by our Guru, He taught us repeatedly. So that's what was very helpful, the vairagya and a firm conviction that the universe is impermanent; these things are very necessary to be progressive in meditation always.

Any vision might be very attractive - the mind has a tendency to get involved by analyzing, “this is good, this is bad, why is this happening? Why not something else to happen?” Like that we get involved with them and we get carried away, and the stories get built up and progressive meditation stops there. Means just like you are going, you need to reach the Divine’s abode but on the way you get attracted to a beautiful scenario and get involved there. You try to verify, you try to do research, you want to know, and you want to enjoy, like this and you are stuck there, you don't travel further at all. Whereas you have to go further towards the Ultimate Truth, Self Realization. So for this, the vairagya is very necessary, detachment. That's why you have to keep going, until all visions, all thoughts, any manifestations, anything that appears all dissolves, just the Consciousness of Existence, one single Self, that is there. Then the seer and the scene both disappear, that's when you are closer to Self Realization, the merger can happen.

Until then you keep analyzing, you keep analyzing, you keep analyzing. It's like a maya, illusion, and never ending - thought after thought you keep analyzing, and you will never be convinced and your doubts will never get cleared. You will go on and on and on, and you are involved with this, and one day you will feel that you are not progressing at all, nothing is happening, no peace is descending. So, that's why I have always told: a real experience in meditation means in your mind, how much silence is coming, is important; how much quietness that you are able to achieve is very, very important in meditation.

And when you come out of meditation also, easily you won't get hurt from the world, you are not getting attracted to either praise or criticisms, either way. You remain unaffected. You are at peace all the time because slowly now you are gaining what you really are. This really needs to be known, otherwise how will you know what you are? If you again end up knowing something else as you and you are not that real you, then that meditation becomes useless and you can go for years and years of practices and you are stuck there, nothing will really happen, means quietness. Only that Consciousness of Existence must be there, that is how the ancient sages also determined the Self as Eternal Existence, the Ultimate Truth is Eternal Existence.

Question 4: Would a real miracle make one go towards peace?

00:13:13

Thank you Babaji. Baba, You've said that a real miracle would be if someone could give everyone peace in the mind, that would be considered a miracle, so any experience people may have, it's really only a miraculous thing if it makes one to sit for meditation, become quiet - in the same way that Swamiji had that miraculous experience of a Jangama Sage coming and putting him into meditation, He then went into Tapas. So, a real miracle is something which makes one go into meditation or become peaceful?

Babaji Maharaj:

Yeah, if we want to understand in this way, many people might claim they had a vision of God or any such thing, but what makes the difference is if the vision is really strong, a manifested vision. Like the Jangama Sage came in front of Swamiji and Swamiji came to me from the photo and made me to sit for Tapas, like this, when it happens, you jump into it and the transformation happens. From an ordinary weaver boy in that small hamlet of Andhra Pradesh, South India, that young boy of 14-year-old, he went into a deep Samadhi, Tapas, of practicing 22 hours in a stretch to remain in Samadhi, means in the quietness of the mind. That is what is Samadhi. Samadhi is when the mind is totally quiet and is in its own plane, it is not spinning or it's not wavering, that is what is the Samadhi word that has been used. It is in samana, it is totally stillness, it is just there as it is, that is Samadhi. That was how He could practice in that Samadhi. If that Samadhi doesn't happen, that means you are nowhere near meditation's results actually. The visions are coming, people get excited, “I get this vision, I get that vision, this thing happens, that jumping happened”, so what you are talking of trance-like situations, they are all like small chocolates, lollipops to make the child to go to the school of spirituality. To attract that there is something much more beyond our capabilities, the Divine is there. Generally, people want to understand the Divine if the Divine has power or energy - hardly people might be interested for knowledge and wisdom. That is why the Divines are also given weapons in their hands - people want to worship only if the Divine can protect us. These are all like the mythical beliefs that happen; real knowledge and wisdom is the thing which can make you totally secure in your existence.

Question 5: What is real spiritual awakening?

00:16:22

Thank you Babaji, online there are a lot of people talking about spiritual awakening and that there are various stages to this spiritual awakening, and we have to go through these stages. What would Babaji say about this? What would be a real spiritual awakening?

Babaji Maharaj:

A spiritual awakening is when peace starts descending, when the mind becomes quiet, that is the simple thing. Anything else, nobody can notice what is happening in the body. Simply by listening to somebody's talks or somebody’s discourses or a lecture or reading in some book, they start claiming themselves, “An awakening happened and energy is stuck there, it is blocked there”, they keep imagining all sorts of things. Nothing would have happened, neither blockages happened, nor are they able to remove that blockage. The blockage is in the mind actually. When the mind is unable to give up imaginations, that means the mind is blocking itself into what you call the hypnotizing effects of its own imaginations, that is what I could tell. So then the blockage has happened. Because when the mind is into imaginations, it cannot lift the body consciousness or energy also. The energy never rises above, it won't happen; it will be stuck, because if the mind has imaginations, it runs to this universe, it spins, it runs and spins, it runs and spins, it cannot go introvert at all. If it becomes quiet, then only it goes introvert. When it goes introvert, then it lifts the body consciousness also. For a teaching, many teachers would have symbolically used terminologies just to tell them, “This is how it rises”, like for example, muladhara or manipura, svadhisthana and all these things, ajna chakra, sahasrara - Nowhere there to be seen, no chakras are there. These people talk of “chakra cleansing” and they don't know how to cleanse the chakra, because they don't know the chakra itself.

The chakra which needs to be cleansed does not exist at all, and what is it that you are going to clean? But you know that you have a mind that exists. In your mind, the thoughts and visions are there, stories, you have built up a world - that is what is making you restless, that is what is making you lose the peace. All these are clearly visible for any human being, that is what you need to cleanse simply, anything else is not visible. They talk all the theories, chakra cleansing, chakra cleansing, chakra cleansing, and that appears to be a big knowledgeable thing when people listen to such talks. And the person who is talking about it himself would not know what it is, and the students who are listening to that also will never get what it is. But they will start claiming, “I have been asked for a chakra cleansing, and I am trying to do that cleansing”. What is that cleansing? Practically, nobody knows what it is.

That's what, you know, from my younger days I always felt, if a terminology is used and if you try to understand, you should know what it is in front of you. Say, for example, now if we use the terminology “space”, everybody knows now the space is in front of you, but if we use a terminology of Brahman, Atman, nobody has seen it, nobody knows that one. In the same way, if I use the terminology “You have a mind, your mind needs to be cleansed”, at least I am sure you all will understand who are sitting there. But if I simply use, “There are chakras and the chakra cleansing is needed”, you don't understand where the chakras are, how to cleanse also, simply you will be talking. When you talk to your friends also, “I am doing chakra cleansing” you will tell, but you don't know where the chakras are and what cleansing is happening. So like that the myths get built up unnecessarily.

Like I have told the myth of the serpent for kundalini, coiled energy. Kundalini is nothing but another portion of the mind, the consciousness and energy combination which has gone into the body has been called as kundalini, the coiled energy, that is the literal meaning, coiled energetic force, that is throughout the body. Because of this kundalini or the consciousness energy going into the body, we have obtained a consciousness of ourselves as the physical body. We have identified ourselves as the physical body. Consciousness is so strongly sitting. See, when your consciousness is so strongly sucked into the movie, that movie appears so thrilling and so realistic, because that gives an effect in your consciousness also, a panicking effect, a fear, an excitement and thrill, on and on. All these are happening in your mind, whereas your mind is in no way touching the movie screen at all, simply it is absorbing in consciousness, in its imaginations. See the psychology that is happening to everybody? In the same way, now the body consciousness has happened, consciousness has shifted, it is so strongly sucked into the brain and brain's reflections, that they appear to be so realistic when the mind registers in itself and firmly believes that. Then we believe that we are this body as the personality.

Though in scriptures many people would have read, “We are the Atman, we are the Eternal Soul”, but where is the awareness? I also used to wonder at the age of 10 or 11, if at all I am that Atman as the scriptures talk, why is it that I am not aware of it? Just now I am not aware, I am only aware of this physical body, as Srinivasa Dikshitar - before my Tapas that was the name, so I was aware that this body is me - why is it that I am not aware, what has made me to forget or how to regain and overcome this forgetfulness? That is the practice of meditation; first get rid of all imaginations, then the Reality becomes visible. You switch off the projector, then the screen is clearly visible, like that the mind has the Consciousness of Existence. The day you achieve total silence of the mind, the mind becomes visible, visible in the sense not to the naked eyes, but to your consciousness it becomes visible. “Ah, this is me, this consciousness of existence”. Everybody is able to feel that one, but just now because it has shifted to the body, they are not aware of what its real formation is, that is what we need to know through meditation: What this mind really is, what this consciousness of existence really is; “Who am I?” The great sage Ramana Maharshi said, “Who am I?”; our Shiva Balayogi said, “Meditate and know yourself”, that's all He said. He didn't say “You meditate, you can fly at 40,000 feet”, He did not say. “Meditate, you will know yourself”, that is the most important thing, other things are all imaginations, no need.

Question 6: Have we imagined consciousness to be in the body?

00:25:05

Thank you Babaji for clarifying. Babaji, just to dwell on the body consciousness just for a moment, Babaji has said before that the consciousness does not have any particular location, obviously no shape or colour or anything like that, but no location, so is it that we've imagined it in the body, it's not actually in the body itself?

Babaji Maharaj:

Actually, it is all simply pervaded. Just like the space is pervaded, the space that is pervaded outside, the same space is pervaded inside the body also, because the body is in the space. So now, the illusion. One saint has sung this song, “Oh my Divine, are You inside the illusion or is illusion inside You? What a beautiful magician that You are, You have done this to all of us, how to know You, my Lord? Please reveal Yourself”, like that he prays in the song. So, such is the wonder; we are the dweller, and the body is inside us, this we can really experience only in deeper Samadhi state. Until then, this will practically not be acceptable easily, but inside at least we will know because of the mind; it is inside the body only that the mind seems to be working at least for now.

Mind is imagining and mind is building up stories, everything is there, mind is not somewhere here, mind is not here, no such location. Though many people symbolically might have mentioned some teachers, we have a respect for that, we don't deny. Like Ramana Maharishi used to say, “You always tell, ‘I am’, when you point to your heart, so that is what the ‘I’ is” - that means inside. That is symbolically, not that the ‘I’ is situated only here, near the heart or in the heart or inside the heart, whatever it is, it cannot be. It would have been a small peanut type of soul; that is not what the truth is. The truth is, just like the space is pervaded, the Self is also simply pervaded. That means wherever you concentrate your mind silently, when it becomes silent, then and there itself it goes introvert and merges. ‘Introvert’ whenever we talk, a person is likely to imagine that coming here, the mind then goes here like this, introvert. He will only know through the physical body; he will try to measure or locate it. That is illusion, that is not what the thing is actually, an experience.

Once the mind is totally purified, it has regained the form of consciousness, it is totally silent now. Then it gets detached from the brain and one would feel oneself as if they are here for a while. That is why, here symbolically, ancient teachers have used as ‘thousand petalled lotus’, sahasrara kamala, that means. That is symbolic, there is no thousand petalled lotus there. Just to understand here, if you feel that you are here, really, in sincerity - nobody should tell lies, they are the losers if they tell simply for sake of claiming or boasting – if that experience happened, that means now the mind really has achieved silence. It has become totally silent and quiet and has regained the form of consciousness.

The teacher would have told for example, “It has blossomed like a thousand petalled lotus”. All of you must listen to this sentence, “It has blossomed like a thousand petalled lotus”. Very often students don't get this ‘like a…’, they will get a thousand petalled lotus and they don't get the sentence ‘like a…’ The master said ‘just like a…’ They forget it, “Oh, master said some thousand petalled lotus also is there, if we come here, we’ve got it!” Nothing such is there, these are all myths that get built up when its symbolically told. If a master tells, “When the consciousness, when the mind comes here 100% in the commanding circle, ajna chakra, it lifts the body consciousness. At that time like electricity, like the serpent also rises so fiercely, right? So fast it is - a serpent in front of you can go “zuuur!” like that.” Like that, a master would have told “Just like a serpent rising, a serpent power rises”, then age after age, the next generation, if they haven't understood properly, if they have understood only a serpent rising, then the students would argue. “The master said something like a serpent”, another says, he wants to convince them and confirm and boast, “No, it was not ‘like a…’, master said some serpent is sitting there, it has to rise”. He will boast that as if he has understood everything beautifully, whereas he has not understood anything at all. Imagine if such a person teaches the next generation? He will teach there is a serpent and that serpent has to rise, whereas the knowledge has totally broken, collapsed, the actual knowledge the original teacher wanted to give. The next generation teacher, if he has not understood what the master wanted to teach, he will teach ignorant things, “There is a serpent and that serpent...” I have heard during my college days, people used to tell, “If you meditate, there is a coiled serpent sitting there, it has to rise, it slowly rises, if you meditate for five years.” Finally, when I meditated and understood, my God, what sorts of nonsense people keep talking in this world, myths get built up. So that is how wrong things happen.

Just like another story I have told many times in my talks of the cat and the rope that is needed for shraddha ceremonies and how the myths get built up. There was a father, and he was given a list of all the ingredients that were needed, and then he wrote ‘a rope’ also. So, to his son he asked “Bring a rope”. Then he [the son] brought a rope did not ask why. There used to be a cat there in their house and his father used to tie the cat with a rope, and then perform the fire sacrifice, shraddha ceremonies, everything. That generation was over, that father as an old man died and passed away. The son was mild, soft in nature, and he wouldn't dare ask any questions to his father because father would scold him, “I’m just telling you to get the rope - you just get the rope, that's your job! Don't bother why it is, you will know that one.” Then he would tie the cat with a rope, and the son understood there was a need to tie a cat with a rope during the shraddha ceremony. Next his son came into existence, and when he gave him the list of ingredients, he wrote ‘one cat and a piece of rope also’. The fellow was a bit more educated, he was not convinced, so he asked father, “Why do we need a cat and a rope for this shraddha ceremony?” He said, “I don't know my son, my father always used to tie a cat with a rope, that is why I also want to do that, and simply follow that as a tradition.” He [the son] was not convinced and he went and consulted certain other learned people. They laughed at him, “There must have been a cat in those days. So that the cat did not disturb the fire sacrifice, he would have wanted to tie that cat with a rope, and for that purpose, he would have asked the son to get a rope. If there is no cat, there is no need of a rope; if there is a cat we need a rope, if there is no cat…”

If we have a problem, we will have to solve that problem, if we don't have a problem, where is the question of solving the problem? Just like that, often in our life we create a problem and then we want to get it sorted out, and we are so miserable to solve it. Within our mind’s imagination we create such problems, and then we tell “We are not progressing, we are stuck here, we are stuck with this terminology - we have read and this has to happen, that has to happen.” All these things keep happening, that is what I have always told, that's how the myths get built up.

Simply, that's why I keep telling students repeatedly that at least you understand the mind, everybody knows their mind, there is a mind. Though you have not seen the mind with naked eyes, but you know that you have a mind, and there is an imagination in this mind. Let us catch hold of this mind, and then you will go through, and you will reach Self Realization, it becomes so easy. The rest of the things the mind will take care of. It is the mind which can take you to yourself, but if the mind is made to be preoccupied with some other imagination, so it cannot know. So that is what happens.

Question 7: When starting on a spiritual path, should one simply practice this meditation?

00:35:40

Thank you, Babaji. So Baba, for people who want to start on this spiritual path, Babaji recommends the method of Jangama Dhyana. So, Babaji, should someone simply start practicing this meditation and forget about all the other things, the kundalini or the body consciousness? All of these things just get taken care of automatically - the only thing that we need to worry about is this practice?

Babaji Maharaj:

One important thing, whatever method they want to practice is no problem, they can practice, but they need to understand the purpose, the right technique. Why? The basic idea of all sadhana, all methods of meditation is mind control. First, control the mind. It is the mind which is running away, spinning in the world, it is the mind's magic effects, like Kabir Das sings, “The mind puffed up, spinning, runs in this world. What a great magician, my Lord you are.” That magic needs to be stopped first, mind needs to become single pointed. If that is understood, then you can practice any method is no problem. So, if people want to get initiated, we want to tell you to practice this silent method also, whereas you can continue practicing other methods also, because our Guru respected all methods as honourable. He respected everything, but you need to understand it in its right sense, otherwise you will be stuck. Whatever you would do, you will not understand, you will be simply stuck, you need to achieve the silent method.

Like in this silent method, we tell, in silence, you practice by trying to get the mind to become quiet on its own without giving any external anchor, this is one thing. Jokingly, I have always told, it is like getting recruited as an officer directly, you do not have to become a clerk and other posts, then get promoted to become an officer finally. Because if the mind is becoming quiet, it simply goes introverted, it will stop, and it becomes one with the Self eventually. It is in a simple way I have told, the statement; it may not happen as simply as we talk. If the mind does not become quiet, then it becomes complicated, so that is what you have to practice, understand the technique.

So, any method you practice, you have to understand that you need to quieten your mind, make it single pointed. Instead of having millions of thoughts, just focus on one thought that you are trying to do. Like you are chanting a mantra or you are concentrating on a breath, any such thing, you just concentrate on that. Eventually one day by the Grace of the Divine, some guidance will come to you, you will be able to understand to give up that mantra, that chant, or that prayer, everything, and just become silent in its own way, on its own sense. Then the mind becomes quiet, then it goes introvert, merges with the Self, that is what I would advise. I would not ask anybody to give up, but don't imagine mythical things unnecessarily - at least catch hold of the mind, go with the mind, start with the mind, then you will understand. Because you know you have a mind, that's what I am telling, the rest you don't know where it is – terminologies. That's why in all my commentaries of the books, I have tried to use the present-day terminologies, not that I don't have any respect for ancient terminologies, but this is easier for people to understand of the present day, instead of using so many terminologies. Whatever culture and language that was prevailing in those days of ancient teachers, they used such terminologies, but if we practice and we are experienced Yogis, then we will know what it was that they really used, why that was used. After doing Tapas, I could easily understand why the terminologies sahasrara kamala was used, why the terminology muladhara was used. It is simple - why the terminology kundalini or a serpent power was used. You understand all these things, otherwise you would have been stuck, so that is what my advice is, whereas we respect all forms of sadhana, kariya, but understand the mind control is what is necessary.

Question 8: Do I need to believe in anything in order to practice meditation?

00:40:40

Thank you Babaji. A question we've heard quite a lot, when people start with meditation, they ask, do I need to believe in anything? Do I need to adopt some kind of belief system in order to practice meditation? Could Babaji just clarify that?

Babaji Maharaj:

Believing could be to have faith in yourself, to have self-confidence, that is the reason. If you need an external anchor; in the form of a Divine, in the name of a Divine, in the form of a guru, in the name of a guru, these anchors are given so that if you need, you don't feel confused on the path. A guru will be there to guide you, inspire you, “You are going right, like this you go”, so that is why the need is given. Otherwise, it is up to you, one's own choice. You first have your own self-confidence, you believe in yourself that you can do it, then for guidance, you look for a guru who is a Self Realized master, and you will get the right guidance. That is important, that's all I would advise.

Question 9: What is a Yogi?

00:41:53

Thank you Babaji. So the last question here, some people use the term yogi as being simply someone who practices the physical yoga, the postures, sort of a blanket term, but in the Indian tradition a genuine yogi is something quite different. Could Babaji explain, what is a genuine yogi, what has such a person achieved?

Babaji Maharaj:

Actually, in the ancient Indian school of thought, two parts of yoga are there, one is the body postures that have been taught, yoga asanas, yoga postures that have been given. The ‘yoga’ word is ‘reunion with the origin’, like if the physical body is healthier, that means it is in yoga; if its health is spoiled, it is viyoga, it is not in yoga, it is away from its origin, away from its healthier position, now it is ill health. So to practice that, in that way, you practice the body postures and then try to learn meditation, is one school of thought. Another one is: directly you just meditate and go for Self Realization. The yogi means the one who has achieved total silence of the mind and has merged with the Ultimate Truth. Like the droplet merging with the ocean, that is the real yogi, like our Shivabalayogi, a yogi, that is what it is.

Question 10: How does a Yogi operate in the world?

00:43:36

And Babaji, such a person can still, of course, operate in the world, like Babaji does communicate and use the mind?

Babaji Maharaj:

Yeah, you see, when you see this physical body, what and how will you know what is in my mind or what is the form of my mind, how quiet it is, what it is I am enjoying, impossible, nobody can know it. Physically you can know, if I raise my hand you will know Baba has raised both hands, anybody can know that. People try to measure or calculate according to the physical postures only; if there are two matted hairs there, and if the person has a beard and any such thing, these are all traditional things. The knowledge is in the Self actually, it is the mind and the Self, that is what is important. Ramana Maharshi never had any matted hair, He used to clean shave his head, but still He was a great yogi. Like that, anything, anybody could be; different traditions could go on. We are having this because of my Guru's tradition, that is all the important thing, but the power is really in the mind, that's what one needs to understand.

Now, after you become a yogi, you can live like an ordinary human being, because I have told one important sentence, to make the mind to go into Samadhi is a different skill. After achieving Samadhi, to bring it to the level of the application of the brain is altogether a different skill. Just like you achieve Self Realization or you achieve a degree, you become an engineer, you become a doctor, you become anything, that is a different thing. To be able to teach that degree, that engineering course, that doctor medical course is a different skill, to become a teacher. So like that, you have to bring the mind to the level of the brain, apply, and then you should be able to teach the right things to the students, answer their questions perfectly, and tell them, “This is the truth”, that is a different skill. Like that you can live in the world. I have also used the word, it's like a sattvic ego, when you have an imagination, when the mind is in touch with the brain, that's when you are able to apply the brain. To be in this world, you need to apply the brains, is very necessary, that's why you practice the skill.

Though in the initial days, it was very difficult for me. I used to remain dazed. Ambaji knows, she used to travel with me, she was with me all the time, all those years she has seen. I used to simply go, if anybody invited, simply went, simply sat there, and whatever they said, I simply went on doing. They wanted me to give Darshan, I gave Darshan; they wanted me to do meditation, I did meditation, like that I went on doing. But slowly I learned then, because we saw people trying to sit on my head, catch hold of my neck, wanted to get rid of Ambaji altogether. “Ambaji should not be with Babaji, then we cannot control Babaji”, they wanted to control me. “It's easy to control Babaji, because Babaji is introverted, he remains in his room, he doesn't know what is happening outside.” So like these things, slowly we picked up the skill and tried, so that people don't take me for granted in administration, running the institution, all these things.

Like this, any person, when you practice meditation, you can remain a normal person, you won't lose anything. The mind will not be destroyed, you are simply taking control of the mind. You can keep yourself restrained, means whenever you need to act, you can act upon; when you need not act upon, you can restrain and keep quiet. Like when you need to talk, you can talk always; if you don't need to talk, you can keep quiet. These are two different skills, right? Talking is a skill, to be able to keep quiet is also a skill - that requires energy, that requires your restraint. Like this, skills you can practice and you can remain a normal human being in this world. You can move, you can adopt any way of life, you can be an engineer, you can be a police officer, you can be a doctor, you can be a businessman and you can simply perform your duties in a more mature way. Wherever necessary, you will use only that much that is necessary to execute things, to do your job and then you will withdraw yourself, you will not harm anybody, but just you are doing your job, that's all, like that.

Question:

Thank you so much Babaji. If we have time, could we open up to the participants? There are some who have their hands up.

Babaji Maharaj:

Yeah, we will take some questions.

Question 11: Does a Self Realised Yogi stop having dreams?

00:48:59

Namaste Babaji, I had two short questions. The first; I was just curious, does a Self Realized Yogi such as Babaji, once the Realization happens, do You stop having dreams at night, just like You stopped having thoughts in the day?

Babaji Maharaj:

No, no, no, dreams do happen, because dreams get produced by the collision of mind with the brain; the brain decodifies and produces, just like this world is here. And now, just like with the presence of this world, a yogi is unaffected, he's just a witness. In the same way in dreaming also, he's totally aware that this is a dream and he remains unaffected. It doesn't influence any thinking or understanding anything, it simply happens, that's all, it's only a vision. Because as long as the brain is there this illusion will be there, but the awareness of the Self is always maintained.

Same questioner:

Okay, so You're always aware of your dreams?

Babaji Maharaj:

Yeah.

Same questioner:

I've had that experience before, it's quite, quite powerful when you realize, yes, that you're dreaming.

Question 12: How and why did the Vedas come into existence?

00:50:25

Same questioner:

The other thing, just briefly, could you explain just a little bit about how and why the Vedas came into existence and any misconceptions that people may have about them?

Babaji Maharaj:

Vedas and Upanishads, they are very great, great teachings. They came into existence since time immemorial - many people want to believe that they came directly from the Divine. In other words, the ancient sages, when they used to do Tapas, deep meditations, and occasionally they used to gather together, a few of them would sit and then discuss about their own experiences, “It is like this, this is That”, like that the terminologies they used in those days, and that was all recorded by their disciples. So that was how the Upanishads and Vedas came.

And one of the important things, what we have read is, Adi Shankaracharya who came probably 10, 12, 13 centuries ago, when He came to the central part of India, He met his guru who gave him sannyasa. Govinda Bhagavatpada was his guru's name. He showed in a cave all the Upanishads which were written in hand in ancient times lying there. So much of them were eaten up by white ants. He showed Shri Shankara, “You need to take out the right Upanishads and Vedas and write commentaries on these.” Adi Shankaracharya read all of them - whichever ones were closest to the truth, authenticated, He wrote commentaries by simplifying more of those ancient, difficult languages. He simplified more into Sanskrit that is available. That is how the Vedas, Upanishads are available. They are very ancient scriptures, amazing, ancient knowledge.

That is a true thing, there is nothing wrong in that. After reading such things, many medieval teachers or present-day teachers are likely to gain misconceptions and mis-teachings; if they are not experienced, if they are only scholars, they might tell, “This is what it is”, and if a student asks a question, then they won't be able to answer properly. They get irritated and then they would tell anything else. Like that, a myth is likely to build up if a person is not experienced, that is what I try to tell. But the Upanishads and Vedas themselves are very great, they carry the real true teachings of the ancient truth of the Ultimate Truth.

Same questioner:

So you need to have proper guru to explain them.

Babaji Maharaj:

Exactly, exactly.

Question 13: How to decipher incomprehensible spiritual experiences?

00:53:30

Pranams, Babaji. Babaji, I came with one question and with this topic one more question was added. So, talking about myths, during meditation sometimes one can experience high observability, but some experiences are not comprehensible. We are talking about Divine, they have such huge powers, it can be scary, it can be fearful, it's energy, it's not comprehensible. So, at that time, the mind goes into “Why, how, what is this that we saw, we never saw this before?” And it could be in meditation or outside in our practical world. So, what does Babaji suggest or educate, guide us in trying to decipher these incomprehensible realities of the world?

Babaji Maharaj:

You see, one important thing, even our ancient sages used was, when they came across such experiences, they understood the power of energy of the Divinity, the Ultimate Truth is inconclusive. That is the word Ananta, they used, they realized - they never jumped to any conclusion at all. Even a Self Realized yogi never jumps into any conclusion. Conclusively, nothing can be told, it is inconclusive, it can be inconclusive, and it is Ananta, it is boundless. That's what is the Ultimate Truth. Like the space is boundless. Space, galaxies, Milky Way, space, like that It continues, and the space is boundless. That is what you understand finally when you reach that level of Truth, so that is what is important. It can be anything. So you don't get stuck with any conclusions, you don't go into any mythical things also, no need for that one. Anything can happen when it has to happen in imagination, it can happen, anything, but what is important, we are not concerned much about these imaginations or the illusions or the mythical things, we are more concerned about becoming quiet and merging with the Self to become one with the Self.

Same questioner:

So in short Babaji, we do not have to think about the why’s, we just have to quieten all of these.

Babaji Maharaj:

Exactly, that's what I would advise, because more you think, you get more involved into the vicious circle of imaginations, and it's a never-ending process - illusion goes on and on and on.

Question 14: What is purushartha, self-effort?

00:56:33

Same questioner:

Babaji, another question which came before this session, what is purushartha, self-effort, and what is the importance of purushartha?

Babaji Maharaj:

Purushartha is, you decide you want Self Realization, and you want to take out time for that, and you sit down to do the job, sadhana. That is purushartha, that is the self-effort. You won't simply sit in a corner, “Oh, the Grace of the Divine should descend and I should get Self Realization”, not like that. That's what is advised since ancient times, the Purushartha word has been used. You have to do it, then the Grace also descends on its own. For this, many teachers have spoken in different ways. Like Swamiji, our Guru used to tell, “Bhai, meditation, you have to meditate and you do your job, sit down and meditate. God will do His job of showering Grace upon you. You don't have to bother”, like that He used to tell. That is what is known as purushartha, efforts.

Same questioner:

Babaji, when trying to identify self-effort, it is also said that if you are wanting to learn meditation or achieve Self Realization, that's the right way. But the mind can get into delusions and desires and wants the world, so the same self-effort is put into some other fruits or desires. So, how is that we discriminate this thing?

Babaji Maharaj:

So, that is what you need to apply your wisdom on properly. Like, if happiness is what you are looking for, you should be able to apply your brain, “I must have the happiness all the time, 24 hours, 12 months. It must not simply be fluctuating.” When we go into this world, when we try to obtain the worldly things, you will always see a permanent happiness is elusive. Happiness comes, unhappiness comes. This practical experience will come to you. Whatever age you are now, if you look back from childhood, whatever you would have dreamt or wanted, used, all the time, all the things have not been able to be obtained and happiness has not been able to be maintained all the time. There must have been some times of anxiety, anxiousness, unknown fear about the future, don't know what it is. Like, these things keep happening to every human being. That is when we must try to know, “I must have the highest truth.” Not simply we compromise for smaller things.

Like, for example, I tell the Divine is ready to give you the supermarket itself. But if you imagine, you might end up imagining a small chocolate. So, slowly as you learn to apply your wisdom, it will come. You will learn. Watch the world. When others’ fingers get burned, you have to watch and learn, “Oh, I need to be careful. I must not keep my finger in the fire. It is going to burn.” That is the application of wisdom. Every time you don't have to put your finger and burn your finger and then only you understand it is not the real wisdom. When others’ fingers are burned, that's what you know. That is what is the effect of history, all these topics you try to know; the past things are always meant so that you learn if any mistakes were done by anybody. Whether in the Ramayana or Mahabharata stories, you try to learn from them also what type of mistakes were committed, and when those mistakes were committed, why the wars and conflicts happened, why the destructions happened. We keep repeating, humanity, if we see the present-day world also, humanity keeps repeating. They don't learn lessons. We need to learn lessons. We should not waste our energies like that. We should be more peaceful. Much higher things are there.

Many times - you see another important example for this question - we have tried to remain quiet by sacrificing our own egos, because we understood we will be wasting our energy unnecessarily, time-waste. Life is short, anytime it can come to an end. Before that, that's what one word of Bhagavad Gita always impressed upon me; “Arjuna, before death shall claim thee, go to the Knowers of Truth, seeking their permission, sitting at their lotus feet, ask by putting intelligent questions and when they advise, adopting such methods, achieve that Truth to yourself”, Shri Krishna advises Arjuna. This advice we all must follow, that is how we will know how the highest things can be perceived.

Question 15: What is the heart?