The individual and the one true Self | Thus Spake Babaji - online Q&A, No.134

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The individual and the one true Self | Thus Spake Babaji - online Q&A, No.134
Recorded on 08 January 2023 with US participants.

0:00 Intro
0:06 Babaji conveys a message for the new year
5:17 Is the purpose of meditation for the consciousness to become aware of itself?
6:44 How do we overcome the misidentification of the individual imagined self?
9:35 What is consciousness's attention?
11:59 Concentrating the mind and sight in meditation?
15:56 What else can someone do to avoid being distracted by thoughts?
16:39 Watching vs thinking
18:21 Do Realized masters feel fear?
19:04 Are we holding our own dream by our imagination, making each moment ever new?
21:40 What is the Sanskrit word for awareness and consciousness?
22:14 What is chitta?
22:53 In meditation my attention between the eyebrows falls down to a lower position and distracts me
24:05 Is it right to call god a cosmic mind?
26:37 A passage from the Avadhuta Gita
28:36 What is unlearning in the context of spirituality?
30:26 Does the sense of who I am disappear in meditation?
32:25 Is concentrating on the Shambhavi Mudra the same as what Babaji teaches?
33:47 Babaji used to watch Swamiji so intently - was that like a meditation?

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Register your free place for the live online meditation and Q&A with Babaji: https://www.shivarudrabalayogi.org/en/online-satsang

Website: http://www.srby.org
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/shivarudrabalayogi
Twitter: https://twitter.com/SRBYmission
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/shivarudrabalayogi/

Transcript

The individual and the one true Self – online Q&A, No.134
Recorded on 08 January 2023 with US participants. 

Intro

Babaji, It's a new year.   

The time for many of us to kind of reevaluate our life and perhaps set new objectives and new goals for the year. Is there anything that you would like to recommend as a priority in our upcoming year? 

Babaji conveys a message for the new year 

Babaji: 

Another new year coming means, another year of opportunities. So that every day you take out time and do sadhana to control your mind, to silence the mind so that its attention goes to itself. That is the consciousness of existence to remind you all. This is the one and last important thing that you have to remember. And if you stop your mind from getting involved into other thoughts and visions. Nothing is as great a wonder as existence as your own consciousness of existence. To silence your mind so that your awareness goes back to yourself, then you become aware of yourself. This is what I would like to remember, remind you all. And you can ponder over the last year how much you really practiced.

 Like you see, though we have this opportunity of the Zoom, technical advancement that you can see Baba online live. It's a live show, I can see all of you. But however, some other circumstances, some other needs and situations sometimes can put a stop to these things. Like if I'm traveling continuously. The first time I went overseas after the COVID was to Australia, Malaysia and Singapore. So during these days, it was not possible to come online because the time difference is too much. But still India is okay, good – eight thirty to nine thirty our night time is fine with me. And now nine thirty to probably another forty five minutes, ten fifteen of India time is still okay. Not bad. But if we go another two and a half hours, another four hours ahead it would become very difficult to come online for the American group, the times. But we always keep trying. So whenever we are available, utilize that opportunity. Don't forget, because suddenly something might happen and it might become difficult to come online. Impermanent, I'm talking of the impermanence of this world to remind you all. Last year is gone. 2022 is gone. That won't come back. Now you have 2023. Already six, seven days are over. You see, time, earth doesn't wait for anyone. Probably billions of years it's going round and round on its axis and going around the sun. So sun also, a billion years or so, so many things. Maybe another billion years or so, but the time will pass by quickly as Nachiketa said, “Five thousand years, fifty thousand years on the earth, it will go by. Is there anything for me to avoid coming back to you?” So like that, one day our resources, our earth may have to die. With that we all would be difficult to reappear again if at all we want to. So do not go waste this opportunity. This year is precious. Don't bother for any other predictions. Good and bad are always there. Calamities are there. Earthquakes are there. Tsunami, floods. Anything might always be there. We don't need any predictions. But you predict about yourself that you are going to practice meditation. This year you predict it and you fulfill that prediction. Then you will win. 

Question:

Thank you, Baba. Reminded me a little bit of the analogy you give of imagine you're sitting on top of a time bomb. The point I think that you are trying to make is that we don't have unlimited time. Don't put off meditating.

Babaji: 

That's the thing I wanted to convey, yes.

Is the purpose of meditation for the consciousness to become aware of itself?

Question:

Okay, Baba. The purpose of meditation is for consciousness to become aware of itself. Is that correct? Is that basically what you're saying? 

Babaji: 

Definitely. That is the one and only purpose that we have to take note and achieve. Do sadhana in that direction. That's why the points that we tell; just to watch in between eyebrows and if thoughts and visions appear, do not imagine anything about them. Any color appears, you get attracted, you want to know and a story can always be told. Human imagination, sky is the limit for imagination. You have a dream, you want some meaning. Anything can be imagined and told. But it's a dream, like that. So any imagination coming, it's only an imagination. So that's what the reality is. So you have to silence, do not bother so that you are able to become aware of yourself. 

Question:

So everything but the consciousness of our Self is a dream, basically, or an imagination. 

Babaji: 

Yeah, it's all depending on imagination. You imagine and it would appear, as a picture, as a thought. 

How do we overcome the misidentification of the individual imagined self?

Question:

One of our deepest beliefs and convictions is that we're each a separate individual self. And meditation is to take us back to the one true Self. How do we overcome that? 

Babaji: 

Yeah, that's because of the brain's reflections and our imagination, our consciousness firmly sitting on the physical body. And that's how we have believed we as this individual. So I always have addressed it as the individual, imagined self. Nothing such really exists. If you keenly observe. For to observe that only you have to get rid of other thoughts, other visions, all imaginations and all visualized visions, everything. So then you will see that to your own amazement, your attention turns to itself. That ‘it’ is only a consciousness of existence and no other form or formless can be made out of it. Impossible. It is neither this body nor the sky as wide as we have imagined. It's beyond that. It is the supreme consciousness of existence - that is the only clue, only language we can use, the nearest terminology, the consciousness of your existence. When you reach that one, then other than that consciousness you try to find out anything else. Is there any other wall, any other boundaries, any other forms? Nothing. It's beyond all those things. It is there. It appears not to be there, but it is there. So for that, silence your mind, become quiet! Stop! 

Question: 

You have said you can make everything in the mind go away, but you can't make yourself disappear. 

Babaji: 

Yes, so that's when you will be convinced when you try and you try to do it and say to yourself. Whatever I am talking is my opinion, what I have learned, what I have observed. Now you observe and you make it out, then you give me your opinion.

Question:

But it's more than your opinion, Baba, it is your experience. 

Babaji: 

Yes, of course. 

What is consciousness's attention?

Question:

You want us to have the same experience. Baba, you use the term consciousness’s attention. What is consciousness’s attention? 

Babaji: 

It means it has the ability to become aware of the thing to which it can get applied to. Or in other words, wherever you can apply your consciousness you become aware of that. Now you are unable to apply it to yourself or apply it to itself, the consciousness to itself. So that's why it is simply aware of its imaginations. You are aware of whatever you had imagined before imagining now and going to imagine in the future, only that you will be aware. You are aware of this world. This is your own imagination previously when you were with your hundred thousand-potency consciousness, whatever you had visualized and resolved, imagined. That you are seeing now.  Because your body is also one amongst that one inside the dream. You are also there, that's why you are unable to find out who is dreaming, who is the one who is watching. Like that here also. So you have to become aware of yourself as the one who is watching all this. You have imagined. Until you don't stop your imagination, you cannot become aware of yourself. So all these are the consciousness points. 

Question:

So that's that distinction between consciousness and awareness. Because eventually when the mind becomes completely still, then there is really not consciousness of anything, there's only just awareness. 

Babaji: 

Just you are in yourself. Either of the two, either you are conscious of yourself or simply the awareness. 

Concentrating the mind and sight in meditation?

Question: 

Another point, Baba about the meditation. You say, “Concentrate your mind and sight between the eyebrows and just focus your attention there”. Concentrating the mind and sight, it sounds like you're supposed to do two things. Concentrating your mind and sight between the eyebrows and just continue watching is the instruction.

Babaji: 

 The sight is from the body, the eyeballs. You fix the eyeballs. Using this one of the sensory organs which is the strongest you can keep yourself withdrawn into it. Just like some people use the breath; when the mind is restless you try to concentrate on the breath and take a long inhale and exhale, restlessness comes down. But eyeballs are much stronger. Not simply the restlessness comes down. It will totally close its imaginations and it will hold on to that. So that's what is mind. Mind is the first terminology we use for consciousness of existence. Once the mind is cleared, the same mind is consciousness of existence. For that, first you take the help of your eyeballs to begin with so that you can fix the eyeballs and with that, you will be easily able to fix the mind also there. So then the mind gets purified. That means you start watching there, you are simply watching, you will forget to think anything about it. So when you don't think anything, all thoughts and visions will disappear. They will all dissolve. That is when pure consciousness exists and you will realize that mind is trying to watch itself. Means you are trying to watch yourself so that you become aware, so that you achieve that pure awareness. Then all this will go back. So no more eyeballs will be needed. After once you achieve this one, you will understand without eyeballs also, you are aware through that awareness only. Mind is aware of that existence or consciousness is aware of consciousness. Mind is aware of that mind. Then finally, awareness. You stop that also. My mind, me, I, everything disappears, dissolves. Simply you are aware. You don't even call it as existence in that state. Simply you are aware.

Question: 

 Because there is no thought there.

Babaji: 

No thought. Because to imagine ‘I am aware’, also you require the help of a thought. So when that thought also disappears, ‘I am aware’ also disappears. Simply aware. 

Question: 

So basically regarding the meditation instruction, the idea is to focus a hundred percent of your attention between your eyebrows. And it just happens that the mind tends to follow the eyesight a lot, very strongly.

Babaji: 

Right. Then the mind will also stop there just into the watching. So when it's watching, it will stop its thinking, imagining, everything stops slowly. If only you can follow this rule, this command. 

What else can someone do to avoid being distracted by thoughts?

Question: 

Is there anything else that someone can do to keep their mind from being distracted by thoughts? 

Babaji: 

Just watching is the best, highest. And for that, use your eyeballs. The eyesight slips and the mind spins and runs. Fix, just watch. Like you are feeling so sleepy. Just watch again. Watch. [Babaji watches intently] Like that. Practice like that. Then finally. [Babaji keeps watching intently for a while] That's it. 

Watching vs thinking

Question: 

Yeah, so you've said that if you're concentrating on something one hundred percent, you can't really be thinking. And so for really watching, the whole idea is to stop from thinking or engaging in thought and then eventually the mind settles down. And you become aware of yourself. 

Babaji: 

Yeah, you will realize if you're really watching, you become quiet. Then you watch yourself only. That watching the front portion stops. That's why no target is given for you to watch anything from the front portion through the eyes or any such thing. 

Question: 

Right. Yeah, you can't really hold on to any kind of concept. Like you've said some people recommend focusing on the heart, but you have to kind of imagine the heart area to do that. So just by focusing.  There’s no particular point in this meditation so there's one less thought to have to overcome. 

Babaji: 

Yeah, one tends to look into the heart. “Oh, where is the heart? Oh, this is the heart. How to focus on this? “ You would be wondering, “How to focus on this?” So you have to bend or what you will do closing the eyes. So just to see the front portion without thinking what it is. 

Do Realized masters feel fear?

Question: 

Okay, Baba, thank you. There's a question in the chat. Do realized masters feel fear? If yes, how do they handle it? 

Babaji: 

No fear occurs. If at all I have to show fear, I have to act as if I am fearful, I have a fear. But actually there is no fear. That Self - nobody can threaten that one. Nothing is there to threaten. They can threaten the body. They can threaten by snatching my ashram. But they cannot threaten me. 

Are we holding our own dream by our imagination, making each moment ever new?

Question: 

Baba, It’s so good to see you, of course. My question is about imagination. You've talked about if you have positive thoughts, you can shape a better reality. Today you were saying things, you know, you become aware of what you imagine. I am loving the silence in meditation. But this question is about this reality, this imagined reality. It feels to me that it's ever new. It's not that there's a reality that's going in a linear fashion. It's like whatever we keep holding in our imagination, if we're distracted by our thoughts, our visions, our tendencies, it keeps reincarnating into the moment. And so I just wanted to ask you about that. Is that the case? Are we holding our own dream by our imagination? 

Babaji: 

It is. You are holding your dream. So that's how, whatever you dream you hold on to that. So for that, to be happy at least in this dream, hold on to the positive. Then the dream will be there at least for some time, to give you more enthusiasm to get rid finally of the whole dream. The one day when the mind realizes, “Enough of this dream!”, then it would like to get rid of everything and just stay in the Self. So till then, you hold on to that positively. 

Question: 

So to take that further then, if every moment is ever new, then as I go deeper into meditation, spending time in meditation is then wiping that dream, it's dissolving that dream so that I can live there, abide there.

Babaji: 

Yes. Finally, that is the thing that can happen. 

Question: 

It's like you get the taste of that deep silence and it's so beautiful that you just want to keep going there versus the movement of the dream. Yes?

Babaji: 

Yes. Very true. That's it.

Question: 

 Thank you Baba.

What is the Sanskrit word for awareness and consciousness?

Question: 

Babaji. Thank you for coming. It's such a joy to see you. What is the Sanskrit word for awareness and consciousness? 

Babaji: 

Pragnya. 

Question:

Pragnya is which?

Babaji: 

 Pragnya is consciousness. 

Question:

Okay, and awareness? 

Babaji: 

Pragnya is the word used for both, awareness also. 

What is chitta?

Question: 

That clears a lot up. Thank you. And how about chitta? What is that? 

Babaji: 

Chitta is when the chitta is holding a thought. So that becomes ‘it’s your chitta’ means it's your wishes like that.

Question: 

 I wonder if the word chatter comes from chitta. 

Babaji:

Yeah, maybe. So when the mind is chattering, that is chitta. Chitta nivritti, this chitta has to be withdrawn. That's why chitta nivritti is the word. Nivritti is to withdraw. 

Question: 

Thank you. 

In meditation my attention between the eyebrows falls down to a lower position and distracts me

Question: 

If Baba allows me, I have two questions, please. 

Babaji: 

Yes. 

Question: 

When I concentrate and I have concentration kind of, to some extent on here, then I feel like my eyeballs, when I concentrate here, they moves down, down, and I'm concerned about it just keep it here. Not let it go down. So it divides my attention. So I never have one pointed attention because I’m concerned about it. What should I do? Should I forget about where the eyeball is and just watch or try to keep the eyeballs here [points between eyebrows]. 

Babaji: 

Ney, if the vision is coming down, let it and just you watch there. Try to hold on to one point. Either here or here, no problem, but as long as you just watch. Your mind has to watch and stop thinking. That is more important. 

Is it right to call god a cosmic mind?

Question: 

Okay. Thanks Babaji. Another question I have. As we have learnt from Babaji, mind is consciousness and energy. Like consciousness’s own shakthi activates and imagines. Starts imagining. 

Babaji: 

Yes. 

Question: 

So let's say the whole just pure consciousness is in the still situation and its own shakthi activates. And here comes God with creation. The world becomes manifested as a creation. So is it right? If we say, if we simply, in a very simple situation define God to say God is cosmic mind, universal mind?

Babaji: 

You see, God is…say, you imagine. But if you don't get involved with your own imagination as a reality, then you remain with God. That is the divinity. That's God. We try not to use the God word because people might imagine a personality. I don't want people to imagine a personality. I use it as divinity. It is the same supreme consciousness. If that consciousness doesn't get involved with its imagination, it shall remain as divinity. If it gets involved, it becomes ordinary. It gets involved into good and bad, right and wrong, happy and unhappiness. Secure and insecurity. All things start happening. Then it loses its grip on itself. Then incarnation after incarnation. That's what happens. So that must not have happened. So if you can keep like that, your own consciousness, when you imagine, you don't get involved with your imagination as any reality. So to get rid of this only now, you just meditate, just now you don't have to bother about God or divinity. That's my final advice. You have to bother about your own imagination and you getting involved in that imagination is more important. 

Question: 

Thank you. 

A passage from the Avadhuta Gita

Question: 

Pranams Baba. So, lately I've been trying to understand and comprehend a bit of the Avaduta gita of Dattatreya. And most of it seems like in line with something like the Ashtavakra Samhita or something, but this one verse is kind of sticking out to me. And I'm not sure if it's something you could help me to understand a little bit, or even if this Avaduta gita is just too far beyond what I can comprehend yet. But the verse says… and when he speaks of it, he's speaking of the universe of experience. It says, "If it is of the nature of the not-self, how can there be samadhi?". If it is the nature of the Self, how can there be samadhi? If both is and is not, how can there be samadhi? If all is one and of the nature of freedom, how can there be samadhi?" 

Babaji: 

If this world, what has appeared is a reality, how can the samadhi come to the mind? If the mind is comprehending this world as a reality? And if the mind is unable to remain in the Self, but imagines about the Self, so then also there cannot be any samadhi. Finally, the truth is when everything comes to an end. There is no comprehension, no visualization, no trying to understand - then the samadhi comes. 

Question:

So, it just will be. And that’s it. 

Babaji: 

Yes, not at all necessary for you to understand. You have to just become quiet. 

Question: 

Speak more to the heart than to the mind, right? 

Babaji: 

Yes. 

Question: 

Thank you, Baba. 

What is unlearning in the context of spirituality?

Question: 

Namaste Babaji. 

Babaji: 

Yes. 

Question: 

What is unlearning in the context of spirituality and how does it take place through meditation?

Babaji: 

Unlearning means you have learnt to analyze this world. Thus you are holding on to this world, which is your own imagination. Now, unlearning that is to make the mind quiet through meditation. Then you unlearn. You are thinking that you have learned this to be a truth. Now you have to unlearn that it is a truth. That is what it is. Now you imagine you are holding on to that. You stop that imagination, you would have unlearn. Some gurus, teachers might have used this terminology. That is all. Unlearn. You learnt that this world exists. Now you unlearn that this world exists. 

Question:

Does it happen through meditation? 

Babaji: 

Yes. When the mind becomes quiet, you unlearn. Until it is working, it is difficult, not possible. 

Question:

Is creative destruction also part of it? 

Babaji: 

Yes. It is simply like a cinema is going on the screen. So, you just have to switch off the projector. That is the unlearning. Instead of that, you try to take a knife and try to cut the screen. But the projection will not stop. So, that’s what is unlearning. 

Question: 

Thank you Babaji. 

Does the sense of who I am disappear in meditation?

Question: 

Good morning. Thank you for being here. Thank you so much. My question is about possessiveness and clinging. And I notice in my own life that I sometimes I want to possess people. I have all these things in my house. I want to possess them. I am afraid that someone’s going to take them or that they are going to leave or that I need them. A lot of this is energy of possessiveness. So, my question really is about when I go inside in meditation, does this energy of possessiveness follow me? I guess what my real question is clinging to this self, I have this sense of, “Oh, this is Alex”. And I feel like I want to possess that too. And as I go deeper in meditation, does Alex disappear? I mean this sense of who I am; I feel like I am wanting to hold on to that too. 

Babaji: 

Yeah, if you sincerely meditate, this individual imagined self will disappear. Because it is not there at all, it is only in your imagination. If you do that meditation. If you don't do meditation, you will carry on to your next life also, this imagination. You will hold on to that and you will create a new world and you will again hold on to yourself. This possessiveness for the body as yourself. So, that's what it is. Now you sincerely meditate, you can get rid of that. 

Question: 

Okay. All right. Thank you. 

Is concentrating on the Shambhavi Mudra the same as what Babaji teaches?

Question: 

Baba there's a question in the chat. In yoga, we often hear a practice called shambhavi mudra where we focus the eyes up towards the third eye. Is this the same as the practice you teach in focusing the eyeballs? 

Babaji: 

Yeah, it is the same. Simply we try to use a simple language, because if a terminology, if a definition is given, you will be holding on to that. “I am practicing shambhavi mudra, shambhavi mudra”, that becomes another ego. So, you just watch in between eyebrows without bothering what it is. So, then you'd like to know what is shambhavi, what is mudra, all these things. You go into detail and you get involved into these things. So, simply watch. You see, I'm not even telling watch in between eyebrows. Then finally, I come to “Just watch” - wherever you want, you watch so that you can become quiet. That's more important than getting involved, “I am unable to bring it in between eyebrows”. Also, no problem. Close the eyes. Watch the front portion. Just watch. Make it as simple as possible is the idea I am teaching. 

Babaji used to watch Swamiji so intently - was that like a meditation?

Question: 

Baba, you've said also that we can practice just watching when we're in waking state, when we're in our activity. I believe when you were a devotee or disciple of Swamiji's, a young disciple, that you watched him so intensely. It was like a meditation. 

Babaji: 

Yes, I used to watch him, but never analyzed what he is or what it is or any such thing. Just watched for sake of watching. 

Question: 

So, in a way, that's practicing meditation. Is that's correct?

Babaji: 

My mind became quiet. It was not analyzing anything. It was not trying to understand anything. It was simply there and it became quiet, receded and became quiet. There was no definition. Nothing else to understand, no analyzations. No bothering. Just wanted to watch him. 

Question: 

That's why you only had to do five years of tapas instead of twelve? 

Babaji: 

Yeah, unknown to me that came handy. So, that also there was no definition, but I did that.