The Power of Imagination and Illusion | Thus Spake Babaji - online Q&A, No.179

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The Power of Imagination and Illusion | Thus Spake Babaji - online Q&A, No.179
Recorded on 25 May 2024 with worldwide participants.

0:00 Intro
0:09 What is it that indcues the imaginations to come out in the first place?
6:10 Would Swamiji's mind as a young boy have had such a strong potency for the Divinity to manifest?
9:12 If we visualise about God, Guru or Self Realization, does it help us to get closer to that?
16:51 Technically, how did the manifestation of the Divine happen for both Swamiji and Babaji?
22:41 Is devotion connected to the yearning for the highest?
24:42 Can the highest imaginations of God and Guru lift our mind our of lower, confused imaginations that we have?
26:20 So should any tests, difficulties or suffering be welcomed?
29:42 So should we not imagine things to be a certain way?
30:58 Does the power of the imagination have to be totally controlled for the mind to merge back to the real Self?
36:30 Does the bird exist of the One imagination or does it exist in the individual imagination?
39:37 "The world is sitting in our mind"
40:28 Is there any imagination for a Yogi?
41:50 Mind has to become under our control, quiet, and then can merge with the Self
43:52 Is devotion the same as demand?
44:35 How to deal with auditory imagination in meditation?
46:19 How does Babaji perceive us?
46:51 Should one get up from meditation to deal with things in the world?
49:18 Are karmas the mind's imprints?
50:23 A Guru would not do anything to add to a person's karma, even when such a person has abused the Guru?
53:30 The difficulty of taking the step to leave the home and devote one's life to spirituality
54:25 If we come across people who are mentally or physicalyl ill, can we use the power of the imagination to inspire them to be healed of their illness?
56:09 In real life can we use the power of imagination to manifest things for us and others?

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Transcript

Discourse: In Quest of Truth – online Q&A no.179
 The Power of Imagination and Illusion
You tube Link: https://youtu.be/aZnJl1g41Xk 
Recorded: 18 May 2024

Start of Questions and Answers

Question:   Babaji, the topic for this week is ‘the power of imagination and illusion’.  So, Babaji, the first question.  Babaji talks about the imagination quality that everyone has.  So, we have this power to imagine a thought, a vision, something that's created, and then we start to think further about that created thing.  But what is it Babaji that induces all of these imaginations to come out in the first place? 

Babaji Maharaj:   For now we can say, mind or the consciousness, where both are same entities, has the ability to create, to be creative by imagining.  This is one thing.  Another thing, the power of imagination which I have spoken, when you become obsessed with one type of imagination - I've used the word ‘obsession’, means totally you are focused on that imagination, like you have fallen in love with that scene.  So that scene appears within your mind when you imagine.  The more and more that you start imagining about the same repeatedly, that becomes so solid.  And very soon you are likely to forget that you are simply imagining.  And because of your imagination only that scene or that thought is there; you will get carried away.  You are likely to get carried away with that thought, considering that thought or the vision to be a reality, that visual effect as a reality.  And you get involved into that one, which can be generating such emotions of happiness, unhappiness, fear, panic, anything with that one.

The more that you imagine, the picture of that imagination also goes on becoming more and more solid.  Nowadays, what we call in the photographic techniques the megapixels, the high resolution, all these words are used.  So in the same way as the resolution goes; this is one thing.  So, another thing which I have spoken about this imagination is, mind has this imagining quality, creative quality.  When the mind becomes more obsessed with that imagination, that's what we call it as creativity – a creation happens within the mind.  And if the mind becomes more concentrated with that imagination then a mental projection, what we call it as mental projection…  So, a person who is imagining might start feeling as if another imagined thing is happening with him side by side, as a personality coming and sitting with him, talking to him, eating with him, all these type of things.  This is the second stage, what I have tried to call after my tapas experiences ‘imagination’ and ‘mental projection’. 

Now, when you are able to do tapas with such a resolution, suppose you are a devotee, you are on the devotional path, and then you get into the tapas silently also.  Then when the mind reaches the tapas stage of total concentration, then a manifestation can happen.  Manifestation, I tried to call this word just to make all understand, it can be as physical as this world, this universe that is in front of you.  So, final word I would like to tell, this universe also was created by your own imagination, but not with the potency of the mind that you have now.  When you were with its hundred thousand potency, higher consciousness in your previous lives.  Every life I have told that this consciousness gets diluted, so it becomes less and less powerful in focusing in concentration.  So, that is why now, this mind cannot handle this universe, but if it goes back to that original much bigger consciousness, then it can make this universe disappear for itself.  Like that, I have spoken in different stages, of creativity, mental projection, manifestation; like these are all the scientific and technical things. Like we saw Swamiji manifesting.  Swamiji saw Lord Shiva manifesting as a Jangama Sage from within.  He saw from within Himself only it was there, because nobody else saw that scene.  All other boys were also there.  They were all having a bath in the canal bund and playing there, but none of them saw what was happening.  Only that young Satyaraju saw that vision.  That Jangama Sage stood in front of Him and made Him to sit for tapas and blessed Him to go into deep samadhi.  So, these are some of the points, imagination and its powers, briefly what I have told.  

Question:   Swamiji's mind must have had such a strong potency even at the young age, of the Divinity manifesting. His imagination power must have been so… can we say that, Babaji, that the potency…? 

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, definitely.  He was innocent, means He was not exposed to outside world like anybody else, with distractions and getting attracted to the world, all such things.  He was simply focused into His own work, earning something to look after His siblings and mother. Though He was not very spiritual or did not get any such training, but He definitely was devotional.  He believed in Lord Shiva.  He believed Lord Shiva as His Guru.  Like a few times, He had visited the nearby Bhimeshwara temple, and when He felt very sad about certain things of His stepmother, He prayed to Lord there under a tree, standing in front of the Shivalingam, that the people of this world should not misunderstand that He left His stepmother and came back to His mother's in Adivarapupeta village. Because His father had promised to give Satyaraju as a foster son to the other wife who was Satyaraju's stepmother, Shravanamma.  But He, Satyaraju saw that lady having some wrong bad habits of selling drugs or opium, all such things.  Satyaraju did not like the idea.  He ridiculed, “If you're not going to give up this habit, I'm not going to stay with you”, and He came.  But before entering the village, He went to Draksharama Bhimeshwara temple, but because the temple priest always used to be looking down at other castes, He wouldn't go to the sanctum sanctorum, instead He would quietly go alone under the banyan tree where a Shivalingam was, which people believed as coming on its own into existence, since time immemorial.  So, in front of the Shivalingam, He used to pray and that day also He prayed, "May my mother and other people not be blamed.  The world should understand that I could not keep the promise of my father."  Like that, He had that devotion.  His devotion was totally innocent, loving, thus He totally believed.  So, any of these thing could have been possible, or His previous lives, any such things. Like this, what happens.  

Question:   So, Babaji, if we visualize about a particular thing, say we're visualizing about the Guru or God or Self-realization, does that help us get closer to that, by visualizing? 

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes, definitely.  That's how if your devotion and faith builds up and you are able to cultivate that, totally are absorbed and you resolve, you keep praying.  So, unknown to you suddenly one day in due course of time, it can materialize.  Like we had fallen in love with Swamiji; since childhood, we used to pray.  You see, just for sake of understanding, when I came to Ashram in Dehradun in 1974, till then I did not have any idea of doing tapas.  When I came, the old lady who was here sent by Swamiji so that she could help me to settle down in the Ashram to look after this Dehradun Ashram, she used to speak to me about a certain young man sitting for tapas in Anantapur town; six months before that he had sat for tapas.  So, after listening to his story of sitting for tapas, suddenly an urge came within me also, a desire.  So, then I started praying to Swamiji, “If possible, I would like to do tapas and serve Swamiji”, means my idea was I wanted to remain at the lotus feet of Swamiji, as a servant of Swamiji.  Other than that, I did not want.  But when I understood one can do tapas and then be a servant of Swamiji, then that was acceptable to me.  So, then I started praying like that; unknown to me I went on praying for a few years.  And then that man got up and went away finally.  He did not continue in tapas; he got disturbed, and so many stories we heard.  So, slight disappointment was there for me.  Then finally, four years later in 1978, when I gave vibhuti to Swamiji to bless, early morning on my birthday, He asked, “Why do you need this vibhuti?  I said, “I want to do tapas and serve Swamiji.”  Swamiji made fun.  “Do you think this vibhuti will make you to sit for tapas?  I told “I have faith Swamiji.  I am sure You will bless me.  You just bless that Vibhuti and You will come and You will make me do tapas.”  Innocently that had sat in my mind.  

Then Swamiji said, “You see, if you do tapas now, you will become egoistic and you won't be able to be with me.  You might give up my presence and go away somewhere.  You might become famous, but you will not get me.”  Then suddenly, that was like an axing of that idea.  “O, no need of any tapas now, Swamiji.  I want to be with You and serve You.  I want You only.  That is the first important thing for me.  Tapas can happen afterwards.  I don't mind.”  So, that was all the conversation.  Then Swamiji said, “In due course of time when the time is ripe, it will come on its own.  Even if you don't want, it will come.  Just now don't worry.”  So, we forgot.  

The next sixteen years, I forgot and I was looking after the Ashram, serving Swamiji, travelling with Swamiji; all these things were happening.  Then suddenly, when Swamiji dropped His physical body, few months later, November, the manifestation happened.  We were doing aarathi and Swamiji appeared from His big, huge photo that is there on the dais.  And I felt that He held my hand and brought me to the room.  At the same place, now, also, I am sitting where the altar is - here, there was a cot.  It was here that He made me to sit, touched me in between eyebrows and asked me to “Just keep watching and do not bother about anything; don't repeat anything and know that either you have to come out as a yogi or your dead body must come out.”  That is what I heard, I remember, then I had lost consciousness.  So like that it happened at the same place today I am sitting.  So that manifestation happened.  

See now, the manifestation means, I have always told the important point, when I talk that the mind has the ability to imagine, that is not an ordinary quality.  Nobody should imagine, “O, after all an imagination!”  It's not an ordinary thing.  Even Vashista talks in Yoga Vashista, entire creation has happened based on the technology of imagination, “Kalpana”, imagination, He says.  Only on the technology of imagination the creation has happened.  So in one school of thought, except for the Divinity which is infinite there was no other raw material; without any raw material a certain thing could not be produced.  So from that infinite thing only the Divine created.  So, an appearance happened.  That happened based on imagination; that was the technology.  That's what He also speaks.  But this is not an ordinary thing.  

So, now the point, when the manifestation happened, it transformed me.  It made me to go for tapas.  My consciousness accepted and simply went into that.  I jumped into that one.  There was no other distraction that ever happened after that.  No distraction.  Mind never got attracted to anything of the world at all.  It got attracted to the tapas and it became obsessed and stood there.  So that is important.  Anybody might claim, “O, we had a vision of God.  We have seen this God; we have seen Lord Shiva.”  Hundred people we have heard about but I have seen no such transformation that has happened to them at all.  Even after seeing such a God's vision they have remained worldly people, selfish, narrow-minded; all these things we have seen in them.  But imagine if such a manifestation really happens when you get a vision of the Divinity in a form.  That will transform the person.  See, that transformed a young Satyaraju from an ordinary weaver boy in a small hamlet who became one of the greatest yogis India had produced, and twelve years vigorously He sat; twenty-two hours in one stretch He used to be, just focused.  Swamiji used to tell “I just went down watching and the samadhi came like that.”  That grueling tapas.  So, that focus, that concentration is what I try to teach all students.  That is what is needed, just to watch.  When I say “Watch”, just watch, then you can get into it.  

Question:   Thank You, Babaji.  So, this manifestation that happened to both Babaji and Swamiji, could Babaji explain how did that actually happen technically, the manifestation?  Is it from past sadhana of being obsessed with the deity? 

Babaji Maharaj:   Till this day definitely it is a mystery; exact technology difficult to conclusively answer.  However, a little bit in my experience or observation, how this could have happened - because when the mind, a person's mind, like either my mind or your mind, anybody's mind with such an innocent devotion on the Guru or God, anything happens, you become so obsessed, like “I want Swamiji, I want Swamiji.”  Imagine, that “I want Swamiji” helped me just to come out of a beautiful home and leaving behind siblings, mother, everything.  I just wanted Swamiji,  that was it, that was the obsession.  Many people talk of passion, but after a very short period that passion dies down for people I have seen, but a passion is actually a passion when it doesn't die down; it should be there at all time.  It is more than fifty years; even today my passion towards Swamiji, my obsession to the name of Shivabalayogi is the same.  There is not an iota of change, no decrease of any percentage, nothing is there.  That day fifty years ago when Nagendra Swami was murdered here, when Swamiji wrote to me, “You just stay there looking after the Ashram, nobody can even touch your hair.”  That faith is even there today.  It is Swamiji who protects us, who has always helped and protected, graced and blessed.  

So, that type of devotion can help in the manifestation.  Means when such type of devotion happens, the mind gets connected to its higher consciousness.  This is an important point here in my observation.  The same mind cannot make such a manifestation happen.  The mind has to get connected to its higher consciousness.  Unknown to you or me, the mind when such a devotion comes, so then it gets connected to the higher consciousness.  With the help of that higher consciousness, such a manifestation can happen.  See, when the manifestation happened, it appeared to me outside my physical body, and it was certainly not within my mind.  For me, it was an appearance that came from the photo, got down off the dais and brought me to this room and made me to sit for tapas.  So, this much I can say, it's amazing, hair raising.  Much more details could be inexplicable, the technology that is involved in these things.  Only it will click if innocently if you have that devotion.  

   Like when we hear in Mahabharata, when Draupadi was about to be disrobed, then all other people in the court could not protect her, gave up by giving explanation as “dharma as the duty” in different ways.  The story says that Lord Krishna appeared, and the cloth which Dushasana was trying to disrobe, it went on growing, it went on growing in her body.  So, he could not disrobe her finally, and he fell, fainted.  So, imagine the amount of devotion of Draupadi towards Krishna, in the name of Krishna, when she thought, “If at all anybody can protect me now, it's only Krishna and nobody else”, then gave up her hold on the cloth and lifted upwards.  And that is a sign of what we call in Sanskrit as sharanagati, surrendering with all sincerity from the depth of the heart, “I don't have anybody else my Lord.  It is you only who can protect.  If you don't protect, it's okay, it's gone.  Or You protect, You protect?”  So these are some of the technical matters what I'm talking.  If such a devotion can happen, that's what the faith Swamiji also spoke.  That's what the faith Ramakrishna has spoken, Ramakrishna Paramahansa; “The faith in the name of the Lord can work wonders”, but that requires an enormous amount of faith.  Simply you cannot say, "You pray and it will come."  It is your faith.  If it goes to that level then it touches the Divinity, then the grace flows automatically, and that is a wonder.  This world can never understand or experience or explain such things.  Only an experience can make you believe that it can happen.  

Question:   So, this faith, this devotion, is that connected to a yearning for the highest?  You want the highest, you won't compromise on anything else, you have to go for that.  

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, if you remember, I have told that Swamiji used to tell, “Even if God comes in front of you and offers everything other than Himself, means offers you everything of the universe, refuse and tell that you want God only.”  Nothing else other than God can give you happiness.  Only God can give you the Supreme happiness.   And that is the final, Supreme.  He is the producer.  You pray for Him.  Why do you need the things produced by Him?  There is an old joke, I remember, in a magazine, two housewives are talking and then the wife comes of the factory owner.  She complains to her husband, "All my friends keep talking,  “My husband got a bonus, my husband got this, my husband got a promotion.”  I don't have anything to claim."  Then her husband tells, “Idiot, your husband is the owner.  Your husband is the one who gives promotion and who gives bonuses to all the employees.  Do you understand where you stand now?”  Like that.  If you want God who can produce anything; so, you just need peace and happiness, and why do you need anything else in the world if you can get God?  That's what Swamiji meant, perhaps, when He used to teach faith.  He used to tell, "If you take the Guru's name with such total faith, then the Guru will have to bless you."  

Question:   Babaji, this concept of God or Guru, the highest imagination, can that bring, can that lift our mind out of the lower, confused imaginations that we have, or any unhappiness in the mind if we bring our imagination to that?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes, such a devotion.  Such a devotion,  background point is if you fall in love; that is one important thing which we learnt.  When you fall in love, you become obsessed with the Guru.  That love can take care of everything.  Even the Guru cannot disturb you, even if He tests; if He cuts you into pieces - such devotion, such devotion.  That's what Swamiji wanted to teach.  You need to have that faith.  That's what He meant about faith.  That's what Ramakrishna Paramahamsa meant about faith.  “Faith in the name of the Lord can work wonders.”  Not otherwise.  If you have doubts, then it won't work.  There must not be any doubt at all.  Then anything that happens is the grace of the Divine, then everything will be taken care eventually.  In due course of time you will get the truth.    

Question:   So, any test, any suffering, any difficult situation is actually welcome Babaji? 

Babaji Maharaj:   You have to accept  if you are really devoted; “It's my Lord who is testing me.  If it's my Lord who wants me to undergo this suffering, fine, this is also a boon, that means.”  Not that whatever I imagine, that has to happen only, then I consider it as a boon of the Guru.  No, what I have considered has not happened and I have to suffer.  So, this suffering also is His boon.  Maybe something better is there in His store for me.  That's how we used to think and assure and console ourselves.  “This is His grace.  His grace that this is happening.  Many times, people have asked me one particular question - Sometimes we see some people suffering very quickly in this life only.  Sometimes we see some people are very cunning and greedy,  they are cheating people, but they carry on for a long time, long time, long time, long time.  What is this formula for?  There is a thing.  If somebody is suffering, that means the grace of the Divinity has started descending on that person.  The account has started clearing.  Plan has been done for the liberation of the soul, but if a person is becoming more successful in cheating, telling lies, in exploiting others, in greediness, he continues.  For others, he appears to be very successful in this world.  That means his debts are getting collected more and more and more.  The day when he comes for his suffering, no God can help such a person and he won't be anywhere; he won't be able to live or he won't be able to die.  God help such people.  Today he might appear successful, he might be going, “Aha”, with all his moustache.  “I am the greatest person.  I am the most cunning and I am the most clever.  I can cheat anybody.  I can deal with any person.  No, not even God can trouble me.”  Never think like that.  God is allowing you, “Okay”.  Because when God wants to slap somebody, pull up and break the neck, He takes out the wisdom first.  When the wisdom of the person is gone, that person is gone.  So, these are some of the points we learned on the bhakti marga from our Gurus, the imagination and devotion that we are talking.  So, such devotion is necessary.  Then it will connect you to your Guru, your Divinity. 

Question:   Babaji, we shouldn't be imagining “This has to happen like this only.”  We will try and formulate our way through life; “It has to be like this.”  We should have the surrender, the faith in God, that God is working everything out for us? 

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, you can imagine what you want.  Go on doing that.  Slowly, slowly by the grace of the Guru that imagination will get elevated to a better quality, to a better quality.  The Guru will train you.  He will train.  He will sculpt on you; allow Him to do the sculpting.  So then the Guru will sculpt and bring you to a shape, a better highest quality of devotion will be brought by the Guru.  The Guru knows, but He won't tell everything to the student.  He will carry on with the student as if He is also going along with the student.  The disciple feels that “The Guru is coming with me, whichever way I am going”, but the Guru will actually take you towards the way that is really needed.  He will drag you back.  

Question:   So, Babaji, for this power of imagination in our own minds, for a normal person, does that have to be totally controlled once and for all in order for the mind to merge back into the real Self? 

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, that is important eventually.  That's what is the meditation techniques Swamiji taught.  Lord Shiva gave Him this technique.  You overcome all imaginations; neither good nor bad is there.  Then it is a direct lift, rocket lift to the Divinity, to the Ultimate Truth when you can simply silence your mind.  What we were discussing hitherto was the devotional path, imagination, its qualities, its abilities, its technicalities, all such things.  That is also a great thing.  So whichever path suits a person they can choose, and both are equally difficult and great, not an ordinary thing.  Often people misunderstand,  “If I follow the devotional path that is good enough”, they think that “I talk sweetly to my God, and I just do some aarathi, I just offer some biscuits to my God,  I am done.”  That is not devotion.  That is not the devotion that Divine wants.  The Divine wants the tapas, the meditation in bhakti also, in meditation also, everywhere.  So that is necessary.  When that happens only the things click, not otherwise.  It will make you frustrated otherwise with your own mentalities.  

   That is what is the other point, the illusion. Now we were discussing about the positiveness, going to the Divine, Ultimate Truth, or manifestation, all these things.  But in the same way, an illusion also can occur.  When the mind imagines, a thought appears.  This I have told; watching that thought, mind forgets instantly, “This thought is there because of my imagination.”   Instead, the mind starts considering that thought to be a reality and suffers with that thought.  Either it gets panicked, it gets scared, or it suffers, it becomes unhappy, it goes into a low feeling, any such thing, negativity can also happen.  That is what is the effect of illusions.  That is what is the concept of Brahma.  The Sanskrit word is brahmà.  Brahmà is the illusion, maaya, illusion.  Means the mind going into such illusion, such hypnotized effect of its own imagination.  Mind going into such a hypnotized effect of its own imagination.  You imagine panicking things and you get panicked.  You imagine scary things and you start imagining as if on your head there is a ghost which is going to break your neck.  You imagine and you get scared and panicked and you run away.  That type of thing.  That is what is illusion.  

The mind imagines; all suffering is due to mind's imagination only.  When mind imagines, its consciousness is so strongly stuck, it is not easy to take it out from that pain or from that suffering.  It is not easy.  Even if we tell the technique, unnecessarily with your own mind's imagination, you are suffering; you don't have to suffer if you become quiet.  That is not as easy as we talk like that.  It is not easy to take out the paint and colors like that so that we can repaint.  It needs a lot of scratching.  That scratching is what is the meditation, devotional path.  Study under the care of a Guru, a real Guru, a yogi, a Self-realized Guru, who will give you the retreat of totally peeling out the skin and repairing you.  He will sculpt you, such things which can be quite painful.  But then when He sculpts, a beautiful figure of yours will come.  You would have learnt such a beautiful devotion beneficial to your soul, and you will become eligible to get liberated.  

Question:   Thank You, Babaji.  Does the bird exist in this one imagination or is the existence of the bird in our imagination.  

Babaji Maharaj:   Ambaji is here; she would like to take this question and tell her opinion.  

Mata Ambaji:   No, no, Baba will answer.  Babaji, it's a shlokha from Mundaka Upanishad.  [transl from Hindi] Two birds are sitting on a tree.  So, is the bird in the imagination or is there really a bird?

Babaji Maharaj:   You see, there is a scene in front.  Now, what you are going to imagine about that scene, things will appear to you so.  This is what the truth is.  Say, a bird is sitting there; bird sitting there is an imagination.  Really, don't know what it is.  Like for the entire world also, universe also I have told, entire universe is our imagination.  Every terminology about every object, about every personality, living species, dead, or anything, words that we have used is all for sake of our understanding and communication.  That means that is imagination.  We called this as ‘earth’.  This existed even much before humans came; humans came, they imagined themselves as humanity, then they imagined the planet on which they are standing as a planet, as earth, like that.  So, that is imagination.  That thing, that appearance was there and two birds sitting is an imagination.  That's what that Upanishad has tried to explain, how an imagination can become a mental projection and show it - then it sits in your mind, two birds.  Then even if I tell it is actually God, you will laugh at me. Anybody, any intellectual person will laugh at me because it is bird, how can it be God?  It is the world, it is the tree, it is the fan, it is the human being, how can it be God?  So, like that, it has to come by practice.  This is the Advaita theory that has been spoken in Upanishads and this thing also is the same thing.  Hope I am clear what I have tried to explain.  

Question:   So, Babaji also mentions the world is sitting in the mind, is that the same thing?

Babaji Maharaj:   Exactly.  World is sitting in the mind and every name imagined, that's why it appears so.  The same way, happiness appears so because we imagine happiness. We imagine unhappiness and it is unhappiness, and you imagined one as the jeevatma or the individual imagined self; that appears to be individually imagined self.  You imagine all pervaded Divinity; that appears to be all pervaded Divinity.  

Question:   For a yogi, Babaji, what happens?  Is there no imagination or...? 

Babaji Maharaj:   No imagination.  Neither there is a bird, nor there are two or one, nothing strikes, nothing registers in the consciousness.  So, that is totally settled in the Divinity.  There, no imaginations, no Divine, nor the individual imagined self.  In the Guru, there is no imagination that “Here is a Guru and here is a student.”  There is no such thing.  So, two birds are not there at all here.  It all long disappeared.  It's a very interesting technological matter after Ambaji told me about what is written in that Upanishad, then I understood,  I got the point, so I could tell about my experience; that is same imagination we have been talking.  She told those two birds mentioned in the Mundaka Upanishad.  

Question:   Thank You very much Babaji.  So, ultimately this imagination has to be controlled, we need to become more and more quiet, more and more silent in the mind through all of our daily efforts and eventually we can merge.

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, Self-realization, final liberation, or to become one with God or to know God, to become aware of God, mind has to give up all imaginations and become totally silent, so that the individual imagined self known as the jeevatma merges and the seer and seen as Ramana Maharishi spoke…  I don't want to confuse people; the Divinity and the imagined self both disappear - one single Self remains.  Means the existence of the Divine is there; nobody must misunderstand that the Divine is going to disappear.  As Ramana Maharishi said for the same word, seer and the seen, both disappear.  The Guru and the disciple both disappear, as in Nirvana Ashtakam, Adi Shankara talking, Gurur naiva shisya; pita naiva mata cha janma…  All dualities end.  Because of the one, the other is important.  As long as there is a disciple, Guru is important; as long as the Guru is there, disciple also important.  So, this is the highest philosophy which one has to understand finally.  Just now I don't want anybody to get unnecessarily confused.  We can go to other questions if it is there.

Question:   So, is devotion the same as demand?  To be devoted, are you also demanding? 

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes, if you are devoted you can demand.  

Same Questioner:   Yeah, it seems to me I just realize I'm always demanding.  

Babaji Maharaj:   No, without devotion, if you demand, things won't work.  If you are devoted, then the demand will work.  That's important.  Don’t forget that.  Both have to go together.  

Question:   Pranaams Babaji.  So, this is a technical question about our meditation.  When our instructions are to observe our thoughts and just watch them and they will start to dissipate and throughout practicing this, it's worked very well and it's such a wonder when you even get a couple minutes of no thoughts. Sometimes those thoughts are very visual, and I notice when the thoughts are very visual, it's easier for me to observe them and they slowly start to dissolve, but sometimes the thoughts are very auditory.  I'm not seeing any images, I'm just hearing like a radio station.  You tune from one channel to the next and that seems to be much more hard for me to control than to observe the thoughts.  Would the instructions be the same to just listen to them or just to try to focus? 

Babaji Maharaj:   Here, you have to watch if it's a vision.  If it doesn't come in the form of a vision, like a radio voice from the space type of thing happening, so here, you just listen.  The same meaning when you have to watch; here also just listen but don't bother what it is.  Don't try to think anything about that.  Just listen and it will disappear.  

Same Questioner:   So, it's all observation either way then.  

Babaji Maharaj:   Observation, exactly.  

Same Questioner:   Thank You, Baba.  

Question:   How does Babaji perceive us?  

Babaji Maharaj:   One single Self, one Divinity exists all pervaded in everything, as everything.  It's the Divine who asks a question to me.  It's the Divine who answers that question.  

Question:   Pranaam Babaji.  Babaji, I want to ask You - nowadays, I've been meditating from quarter-to-nine to quarter-to-ten or quarter-to-eight in the night after all my household chores have been done.  So, my question, a few days back, there was a parking issue when my husband could have been in a brawl with the neighbor.  So, what was my duty that time - to sit like I had sat (for meditation) or to stand there, to be in the stress all the time and to be there to what might happen, what might happen.  That time, the fear is there like what he would be saying or what would the world say, like the mother-in-law would say, if something would happen, “Is it your duty to sit for the meditation or to stand by him?” 

Babaji Maharaj:   Now pay attention, listen to me.  If you have sat for meditation, then meditate, only meditate.  During meditation, you just meditate, do not bother about anything.  When you are up, out of meditation, wherever your responsibility is there, you need to bother, you bother.  But don't take it seriously to the mind.  That's what is important.  You have to understand.  Simply you are sitting for meditation, but you are thinking of the brawl there, your husband is fighting with somebody, some neighbor, something has happened, all the scenario will be coming to you in the mind.  Then the meditation also doesn't happen, and you are unable to get up and go on to help your husband also.  Neither happens, uselessly you are simply sitting.  

Same Questioner:   Yes, neither happened, but it was in my imagination that it could have happened.  

Babaji Maharaj:   Your imagination only; don't allow any imagination to happen is what I am advising.  When you meditate, you meditate.  When you want to go and help, you go and help, either way.  Understand? 

Same Questioner:   Yes Babaji, Pranaam. 

Babaji Maharaj:   Good.  

Question:   Pranaams Babaji. Babaji, I wanted to ask, so I have built an understanding, so I want Babaji to review that.  Babaji, in my understanding, karma just seems to be our mind’s imprints.  So with every day passing in our life we take certain imprints, and those imprints our mind takes it into, absorbs them, and then next situation happens; whatever out of that imprint, based on that karma, next birth, or next destiny is decided.  So, does that understanding make sense? 

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes, that's how it happens.  The karma goes on and on, and on.  So, spiritual satsanga, meditation is taught so that you can put an end to this karma chain.  

Same Questioner:   So, a continued question from this is a while back, something happened at Babaji’s Ashram, somebody was staying at Ashram and they left.  So, it was quite devastating for everyone.  And Babaji said that as a Guru… I’ll try to say that statement again – it’s not the same statement, Babaji but whatever I understood… Babaji as a Guru will do everything so that it does not add to their karma.  Even if they left Ashram or everybody felt bad, that it will not add to their karma.  How does a Guru show such benevolence and how is it possible that the imprints don't go to the person when dealing with Babaji? 

Babaji Maharaj:   See, like a Guru, if he's a yogi, the vibrations can get transmitted.  So, if a person stayed with me for some time, went out and abused me, what happens?  Such a person stayed with me for some time and served.  But once he abused, all that effect is gone, and he is acquiring more karmas.  It is something like you cook a beautiful matar pulao and put sand into that one, so then nobody can eat it.  So, that's how the things happen.  So, just to be compassionate, I pulled up such a person, if not directly, when I talk to others, I might tell “See, such a person behaved in such an abusing way; it's very bad of him.”  I keep scolding.  But inside, I'm very compassionate.  I don't want anything bad to happen to anybody in the universe, in the world, not even to a person who has abused me.  I would like that person to get rid of the karma, move on in the life.  So, that's how the act happens.  Like a mother pulls up the child, right?  It is with such an affection and compassion.  I don't want my child to go on the wrong path.  Every student is like a child for me, my own child.  So, that is how the things work.  

Same Questioner:   So, Babaji, if everybody shows the same compassion, will there be no bad karmas? 

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes, it can happen.  So, if you ever hear that Babaji was scolding you, if your sister tells you “Babaji was scolding you”, understand that “Babaji is so compassionate, He loves me so much.  He doesn't want me to have any karmas.  That's why He is scolding.”  Got it? 

Question:   Pranaams Babaji.  Your life, and when we hear Ambaji's life, it's so inspirational.  You left a beautiful loving home without even having a second thought of your requirements for monetary, who would take care of food, clothing or any retirement account or health insurance benefits.  It's so hard for a common person, unless they have that level of faith, you would not be able to take that step is how I feel.  It’s so inspirational.  

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, jumping is very difficult, not easy.  You don't know, you are in the dark.  You are jumping in the darkness, you don't know the future, what's going to happen.  That faith, that takes care, finally.  

Question:   Sadr Pranaam, Babaji at Your lotus feet.  Babaji, I have two questions.  We see a lot of people suffering from illness.  It could be anything, it can be mental, it can be physical or something like that.  So my question is, if we come across that kind of people in my life or something like that, then can we use the power of imagination and illusion to inspire them to heal, to get healed of that illness?  Because the illness also could be an imagination which they have? 

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, you have to practice that high level of devotion.  You need to have that faith in yourself and your Divine Guru, then you pray then it can be healing; prayers can be quite effective.  But you need long time practice yourself.  

Same Questioner:   Okay, so if I am able to practice and reach that level, then if I tell them that “You will be able to heal”, will that effect be there on other people?  

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah.  

Same Questioner:   They will be able to heal.  

Babaji Maharaj:   Yes.  

Same Questioner:   O. 

Babaji Maharaj:   So, you have to reach first.  You have to reach first.  Then you can teach others.  You can inspire others.  

Same Questioner:   O, I see.  In meditation we are logging out, unclutching from everything.  But in real life, can we use the same power of imagination and illusion to manifest things for us or to even inspire and empower people by using the power of imagination and the illusion to empower and inspire people?

Babaji Maharaj:   These things are not that easy that you just put your hand, “I want a pumpkin on my hand” and it comes.  It's not that easy.  I've been speaking in this session also the amount of devotion and faith in innocence that Draupadi had in the name of Krishna that it manifested for her.  So, when such a devotion is there innocently, automatic Divine activity of manifestation happens, the grace automatically flows.  It is not a deal working out or a demanding or a questioning thing, “If I do like this, will it work?”  It doesn't work like that.  Provided, if you have that faith, that devotion within you inside, then it works.   

End of Questions and Answers

End of Session