In Quest of Truth - Q&A with Shri Babaji
In Quest of Truth - Q&A with Shri Babaji
Ashtavakra Gita - Chapter 2, verses 1-6 | In Quest of Truth - Q&A with Babaji, No.202
Register your free place for the live online meditation and Q&A with Babaji: https://www.shivarudrabalayogi.org/en/online-satsang
Ashtavakra Gita - Chapter 2, verses 1-6 | In Quest of Truth - Q&A with Babaji, No.202
Recorded on 15 September 2024 with US participants
Baba discusses the importance of faith, devotion, and attention in self-realization. He emphasizes that self-realization is not a gift but a result of following the master's teachings with seriousness and reverence. Baba explains that Self-Realization involves understanding the supreme consciousness and becoming quiet, which leads to the realization of the Self. He clarifies that Self realization and God realization are the same, as they both involve merging the individual self with the ultimate truth.
0:00 Intro
0:08 Introduction to the Asthavakra Gita
0:43 Chapter 2, verse 1 - How do faith and devotion, attention and listening to Truth benefit us as well as meditation for silencing the mind to achieve Self Realization?
11:11 "Though all the universe is within me, nothing is really mine as the real Self."
17:02 Verse 3: "My consciousness has given up the universe as mine and the body as me, my total attention is on the awareness of existence which is the supreme consciousness and peace."
24:26 The grace comes spontaneously if you have faith.
26:02 What you think, it manifests.
27:28 "The objects of the mind are not different from the mind, this universe is not different from the Self."
30:09 Consciousness is the Truth and as that expands the universe expands?
30:44 Verse 5: "On examination a cloth is found to be only thread, in the same way, on close examination the universe is nothing but the Self."
34:43 Babaji's commentary on verse 5.
37:55 How does a Self Realised person see the world?
42:10 A Yogi doesn't get carried away, does not lose the conscious awareness of the Self.
43:29 Can we endure the prarabdha karmas through daily practice Jangama Dhyana?
45:52 The temporary nature of the universe, appearance value vs existence value.
49:03 Is space ultimately also just a concept?
50:00 Force is required to bring eyes and mind in between eyebrows in meditation.
51:57 How personalities start and change.
53:03 Babaji quote 'Everyday when you get to face tests and life, only then your worthiness is proven.'
54:43 What is the difference between Self Realization and enlightenment?
55:38 Where can one find the story of Ashtavakra and Shiva as the villager with the country made alcohol.
56:46 Instructions come up in the mind in meditation like a mantra.
57:49 In Bhagavad Gita, Krishna asks Arjuna to surrender on the battlefield, does this mean silencing the mind?
59:32 Can meditation be concentrating on a feeling of the Self and trying to stay there? And to think of that feeling ourself meditation, reminding oneself that you are that Divine?
1:00:52 Meditation technique is a balance of focusing with will power but also relaxing and surrendering?
1:01:42 Difference between Self Realization and God Realization?
1:02:21 Experiencing deities in meditation.
1:04:48 A verse from one of the upanishads.
1:07:25 A sensation which flows form the centre of my forehead to the centre of my head like something is being released? Is this good or am I overthinking?
___
Website: http://www.srby.org
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/shivarudrabalayogi
Twitter: https://twitt
Register your free place for the live online meditation and Q&A with Babaji: https://www.shivarudrabalayogi.org/en/online-satsang
Website: http://www.srby.org
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/shivarudrabalayogi
Twitter: https://twitter.com/SRBYmission
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/shivarudrabalayogi/
Ashtavakra Samhita - Chapter 2, verses 1-6 | In Quest of Truth - Q&A with Babaji, No.202
Recorded on 15 September 2024 with US participants
Facilitator:
For you, the people that are just joining or who are not familiar with the Ashtavakra Gita, this is Baba’s translation and commentary on that. It's a classic Advaitist Vedantic text, very concise, very boiled down to the essential points, without a lot of extra verbiage. Baba is going to explain it and help us understand it better.
Question:
Okay. Chapter 2, verse One. This is King Janaka speaking to his Guru, Ashtavakra. "I am spotless, peace, consciousness, beyond nature. All this long time, I have been just simply fooled by this illusion." Verse Two, "I alone illuminate this body and the whole universe. Thus, the whole universe is mine, or nothing is."
So, Baba, in your comments, in your commentary, you start to talk about faith and devotion in the Master, the strength of attention as important for Self-Realization. These are things other than just the meditation to (help) stop the mind. Also, you were saying that by listening to these sutras, this truth, that it helped Janaka obtain silence, stillness of his consciousness, and Supreme Peace. So how does faith and devotion, strength of attention and listening to truth benefit us, and help us with Self-Realization, in addition to meditation, the actual practice of silencing the mind?
Shri Babaji:
Very true. If we try to understand these two words, faith and devotion. One (faith) gives self-confidence, making you serious in your efforts and approach. Devotion gives you determination, discipline and a totally focused attempt to undertake the sadhana as advocated by the Guru. So that is how faith and devotion are taught, they go together. If you have faith in the Master, you will be serious. You won't take things casually, and you will follow the Master's teachings. You will listen to the Master's teachings and whatever sutras Master gives—like exercises, like if it's a meditation, “This is how you meditate”, you will simply follow those instructions, and when you are following it means you are devoted. That's why you are following. You are devoted to the Master, then you become serious when the Master says that “You do like this”. If you are not devoted, you don't have faith, then you lose confidence, and you lose any reverence to the Master's teachings, also. You are likely to take up things casually.
Like in Ashtavakra Samhita, earlier, before Ashtavakra actually came to Janaka, so many other scholars or Self-Realized, whoever was there, they all approached after King Janaka announced, “If anybody can make me to be Self-Realized in the moment it takes to mount on a horse’s back. Like on the horse’s back, always one leg you keep on the saddle and put your right leg over the horse to the other side, to get seated on the horseback. Within that moment, if anybody can give (King Janaka Self-Realization). So people came and tried their best, by giving teachings, by giving lectures and upadeshas, talks, everything, but all of them failed, because at that time the student was also not ready. He didn't have 100% faith. He still had the ego that he was an emperor, thus he was not paying full attention to what the teachers were saying. Thus, he failed to adopt such methods and failed to do any sadhana, so the things were not happening at all. That is one reason.
When Ashtavakra came, King Janaka said, "Do you know the challenge? You have to give me Self-Realization, or help me to achieve Self-Realization in that moment of sitting on the horseback.” Ashtavakra said, “No problem, that is no problem, that is simple, but I too, have some conditions, three conditions. First, you come down from the throne and I will be the emperor, and you will become my servant. If this is possible for you, tell me.” King Janaka understands this point, so he comes down. Thus, he had developed faith in the Master. “What this Master is telling, that I should come down from the throne, it may have some meaning, so let me get down.” He comes down.
The second one, “You just follow me wherever I go, and listen to whatever I say.” Like that, He asks. He (Ashtavakra) sits on the horse’s back and asks Janaka to hold onto the saddle and to take him along. As He went on, Ashtavakra went on talking, "Now you pay attention, this is the next command. You have to listen to me, if you don't listen to me, it's not my problem to give you Self-Realization." So these conditions are very much necessary. I hope you all understand. If a student doesn't pay attention when the Master is giving you teachings, it won't go to your head. You will never understand what the Master is teaching. You will take it casually. So, you lose faith, you lose confidence, you lose seriousness, and you lose reverence to the Master. Reverence to the Master means you lose devotion to the Master, "Oh, this Master is incapable of giving us any Self-Realization".
That is why faith and devotion are so important. If I will dedicate my time and energy to teach you all, I am dedicating taking precious time of mine to come and sit here at this late night hour to give you instructions, to answer questions so you can understand. In the same way, you also would have taken out time. That time you have taken out must be out of total reverence and devotion to the Master. That is very important. Then you would listen, otherwise you will be casual when I am answering questions. It is not just for Agastya, who has asked the question. He might have already listened to my teachings; he might have achieved and he must be knowing. However, these questions are being asked on all your behalf, so you all have to listen when I am answering.
This is for all of you. That is the devotion. If you have devotion, you will be serious. You will have reverence to me also. Then you will pay attention. That is why both devotion and faith go together. If you have faith, you will have confidence that you can do it. Otherwise, you will always be depressed. "Oh, Master, I don't know how to do it. Can you give it to me?" Self-Realization, nobody has given it to anybody in this world, in this creation. Master gives a teaching as a torch bearer. He gives clues, He leads you. He can inspire you. He can hold your fingers, but it is you who has to get up and start walking. It is you who has to sit for meditation and follow the instructions with total faith and devotion. "Just watch in between eyebrows", that point you have to catch. You have to understand. So, that is the faith and devotion that we are talking about, which is very necessary.
Question:
Baba, I'd like to add, you know, the faith and devotion is not for your benefit, it's for our benefit.
Yeah, the emperor, I guess we're all the emperor of our own world, that ego which doesn't want to surrender its position.
Shri Babaji:
Yeah, we saw many such people, VIPs, coming to our Master, sitting with Him, holding their own egos of their status, whether they were officers or they were anything else. So, they all failed to learn what Swamiji wanted to say, what Swamiji told them about meditation. They all wanted Swamiji to endorse what they wanted to know, that was all. Whatever they knew, they wanted it to be endorsed by the Guru, but that doesn't work. Then you lose the vital Self-Realization. Know that devotion and faith are important.
Question:
Baba, in your commentary to Verses One and Two, you said, "All imaginations receded. It (the mind) had regained pure consciousness." Janaka realized, "Though all the universe is within me, nothing is really mine as the Real Self." What does that mean, "Though all the universe is within me, nothing is really mine as the Real Self?”
Shri Babaji:
You see, for example, now, I can talk about the truth, but you have to observe—it is in front of you. First point, you always hear the teachers say, "It is all pervaded". If you are a student with total devotion and seriousness of reverence, you will quickly understand, “Oh, this is what is all pervaded. Earth is not all pervaded. Sun is not all pervaded. Any matter is not all pervaded, but space is all pervaded”, just like that you realize quickly. Then I tell, “That Truth exists in itself, it doesn't need anything else for its existence”. So that's how the Master teaches and if the student is totally observant, he catches, “Oh, it is this space which exists in itself, and this space is pure.” Gagana Sadhrisham in the Guru Gita shloka, every day when we chant to wake up all of you—"The yogi's consciousness is Gagana Sadhrisham, is as pure as the space.” Space is the purest. No dust and nothing can make it impure. So that is the supreme consciousness.
Like this, Ashtavakra went on teaching during the sojourn. then he got the point, Janaka got the point, he realized. Like every time answering a question during my teaching, hundreds of times I have told about the consciousness of existence that is within you. In the midst of millions of thoughts, it is there. If only you could get rid of the thoughts, you would easily observe, "Ah, this is it, this is what Babaji has been saying is the consciousness of existence”. Like that, Janaka was ripe, he paid attention, he listened to the Master, and he realized; that’s what he is mentioning here. “I am that purest form, pure, as pure as the sky”, is the example he is giving. So, like that he realized in theory. Then finally, when he just became quiet by order of the Master, mentally he became quiet and became totally realized.
Now, when we teach like this, if you are observant, theoretically you might understand, but then you have to make yourself effortlessly abide in that truth. When you meditate, then you are able to achieve that. That's what Janaka saying these things means in the conversation between the Master Ashtavakra and the student Janaka. Ashtavakra went on, either through answering the questions of Janaka or through His own teachings. Janaka had paid attention, thorough attention. He had observed, thus he could absorb the truth of the teachings of the Master, then he became aware of what the truth is. Finally, he achieved that Truth and abided in the Truth, by himself becoming quiet when the Master said, "Quiet! Stop!" That was quite easy for him. Once you all understand what I am trying to convey about the consciousness of existence, and what "Just watch" means, then when I instruct “Gently close your eyes and just watch in between eyebrows, concentrating your mind and sight”, you would achieve that samadhi, if only you are observant, and just watch. That's what here Ashtavakra and Janaka; the meaning of this sentence.
Question:
So, Baba, when He said, “Just be quiet”, He didn't mean stop moving around and stop talking. He meant mentally become silent, right?
Shri Babaji:
Mentally is more important. Yes.
Question:
I mean, I could sit here all day for probably the rest of my life…
Shri Babaji:
If the mind is active, then you are active.
Question:
Right. It's hard to stop the mind.
Okay. Verse Three. "As my consciousness has given up the idea of the universe as mine and the body as me, my total attention is on the awareness of Existence, which is Supreme Consciousness and Peace. How contented I am, and there is no need of anything. What a secret wisdom the Master has given me!"
Shri Babaji:
You see, now I'll comment on these lines. Hundreds of times I have talked like Ashtavakra talked to Janaka, the same thing, giving you the clue openly, without any secret, straightforward, transparently. I have been giving this clue to you all: apart from being all pervaded, it exists in itself; it is pure consciousness; it is pure. When you don't make any judgment, when you don't think, when you don't analyze, it is that Truth, that Consciousness of Existence. So, while listening to me talking like this, along with that, if your mind can picturize what it is. “Ahhh”, then it would be awesome, "This is what Babaji is telling. This Consciousness of Existence is what Babaji is telling—amazing”. Like that when you compare, then slowly your consciousness shifts from the body to that Truth.
The same way it happened to Janaka. Janaka was ripe by then. The ripe student, a worthy student for Ashtavakra, that's what Ashtavakra wanted Janaka to be. When he asked, Janaka accepted. So, this is what a Master wants always, more than anything. I need you to pay attention—it doesn't mean that you have to press all the time, no, pay attention to what I have to say. You ask a question, and when I'm answering, pay attention to that answer. If you don't pay attention to the answer, if you are paying attention to the imaginations that are in your mind, a 100,000 times you ask the question, and a 100,000 times I answer, it won't go to your head. So that's the importance of devotion. That's the thing here, when the student pays attention, he is able to become aware, "This is it". Like in any school, College also, when you have gone academically in a mathematics class or engineering class, anything, when the teacher is teaching, all those students who would have paid attention, they would have quickly got the clue of the formula the Master is teaching. Those who wouldn't have been able to pay attention, they wouldn't have been able to learn anything. Simply, the Master was "blah, blah, blah", or something. He was talking giving lecture, the student did not absorb anything. The same way here, also, this is the most important thing that the Master wants: your attention, your devotion, your faith. That is all what I want. If it is there, my teaching will be worthy, and you will be a worthy student, a worthy disciple. That is why a Guru disciple relationship is recommended. This is how a Guru disciple relationship goes.
We had that faith and devotion to the Master. Whenever He came to Dehradun ashram, I did not have anything to convey to Him. I did not have any problem that I wanted Him to sort out. I did not have any complaint to give Him. Instead, I just waited all the day, all the time that I was with him. At any moment some truth might come out of his mouth, something about the philosophy, some teaching might come out, some clue might come out. Attentive, fully—that used to come out. We got it. We caught it. Even now it's ringing in my ears. He spoke about the faith. Like one sentence He said, “If you have faith in your Guru, the Guru will have to bless you”. You understand this language of mine, English? “If you have faith in the Guru, the Guru has no other choice, He will have to bless.” What does that mean? If you have faith, the grace automatically descends on you. The Guru doesn't mean this physical body sitting here. The Guru is all pervaded. The Guru is within you. The Guru is everywhere. That grace descends upon you from that soul, that ultimate truth automatically when you have faith. That's what the Master tries to teach.
Like that, He spoke many things, many wonderful things about ultimate truth, about meditation, about what you have to do. How it's the silence you have to achieve. You have to just watch. These things He taught. Anything might appear. He used to say, when you do tapas, a manifestation of an angel (or a demon) might appear, but don't react, just (watch?), that's all he used to teach. We got the meaning. If anybody comes standing, let anybody come standing, let any Tom Cruise, Dick and Harry come and stand in front of us. We don't get attracted, no comments. We don't get involved mentally. We don't get excited. We don't get frightened. That is what is keeping quiet and just watching. That's what is tapas and meditation. Like this, one sentence the Master said and we understood, and we got it. We got the clue. That's what is necessary for a student. That is what is the Guru-disciple relationship. Nowadays, people keep doubting. Is it necessary to take somebody as a Guru, or can we get it without it also? And then suddenly they tell, “I think this thing has become awakened”. They don't know what awakening is and they claim they have become awakened. You have not even poured one bucket of water on your head, you have not used any soap, and you claim that you had a beautiful shower.
Question:
So, Baba, spontaneously the grace comes. It's not something the Guru has to say; “I'm going to send Grace to You”, or “Yes, I'm going to bless you”. With the faith it automatically comes.
Shri Babaji:
It doesn't happen that I hold the cell phone— "I'm sending you my grace”. It doesn't happen like that.
Question:
I remember one time somebody asked you, "If I fell off a cliff and was hanging by my fingertips, and I called to you, would you come and save me?" And you said, if you had enough faith a hand would reach down to you; you'd be saved. You said, it's not what you're thinking, it's much bigger, it's an automatic divine activity. The Guru is divine, the Grace is divine, and it's your own connection and faith that brings that grace to you.
Shri Babaji:
Yeah, very true. Very true.
Question:
It's such a bigger thing. We want to limit all that into one person or one prayer or something like that. When it's infinite.
Shri Babaji:
A long time devotional practice gives you that faith, then you hold on to that and the Guru will bless you. It will be automatic.
Question:
Baba, related to that, I know for a lot of us that have been doing this a long time, whatever you think just manifests. I mean, you don't even ask for it. You just have an idea, and then it appears. It could be a physical manifestation, it could be mental, it could be a situation, it could be anything. I guess I was always doing that, or maybe not. But that's another quality, it’s selfless when you ask for something, then the Divine just seems to give it to you automatically, instantly in most cases.
Shri Babaji:
That's why if you all remember, I have told, Swamiji, my Guru used to tell, if you ask, you will end up asking for only a small chocolate. That is all your imagination. You don't know the bigger cause, the bigger thing, larger cause, you don't know that. You don't know how to ask that because you don't know. You know only the chocolate. You don't know the supermarket. But God wants to give you the supermarket. Let Him give on His own, whatever He wants to give. Then see the beauty of it, when He gives you that.
Question:
Okay, Baba, Verse Four. "Just as the waves and bubbles are not different from the water of which they're made, the objects of the mind are not different from the mind. This universe is not different from the Self." Would you explain that?
Shri Babaji:
Exactly, the clue is mind, your own mind. So many things are in your mind, a world is there, characters are there, stories are there, but they are all within your mind, not outside your mind. If it was outside your mind, outside your physical body, outside your head then what you are thinking everybody else also would have watched. Everybody could have watched each other's thinking. That doesn't happen. In truth, nobody can watch the others thinking, right? That is why everything is inside the mind. In the mind. Because it is in the mind the raw material for all such appearances is mind. Without a raw material, nothing can be produced at all. The same thing in Upanishads also, it talks; in Katha Upanishad, Yamadharma Raja, teaching Nachiketa—when the Divine wanted to create, other than the Divine, nothing else existed at all. So He could not use anything else as raw material, so out of Himself… Though, here we use the word ‘Himself’, don't imagine God to be a human being type of manifested personality. It's all pervaded, infinite; just for sake of understanding we are using. He created the creation out of Himself. Means the Divine is the raw material for this universe. This universe is just within that Truth. That's why, when Truth expands, then the universe expands, not the universe expands, and then the Truth expands. It is wrong. Actual Truth is when the Truth expands, along with that the universe also expands. When your mind spins and expands, the imagination also expands. Your world also expands.
Question:
So, consciousness is the truth, and as that expands, then your universe expands. Your worlds expand.
Shri Babaji:
So, then you make your consciousness quiet, everything becomes quiet and disappears, dissolves. It's all quietness. When the consciousness spins again and the dancing starts of the world, of the universe, of the creation.
Question:
Thank you, Baba.
Verse Five. "On examination, a cloth is found to be only thread. In the same way, on a close examination, the universe is actually nothing but the Self." Verse Six. "Sugar made from sugarcane juice is entirely pervaded by that juice. In the same way, this universe produced in the Self is permeated entirely within and without by the Self."
Shri Babaji:
You see, one simple example I’ll give, when you observe the universe, it is within the space. Only the space can be beyond the universe, and nothing else. No other visible (thing) larger than the universe is there other than space. So that's why the universe is from the space only, in the space only, as the space. The space is the creator of the universe and the space is not just space as we all imagine, as just a void place. It is supreme consciousness, this you experience when you overcome all imaginations in your mind, and when that mind becomes pure consciousness and it merges with its higher consciousness, then this awareness of experience happens. Just when we talk of the theory it may not occur to you, but if you are paying full attention, and if you can see through the logic, then also you can become aware.
That's the conversation between Ashtavakra and Janaka. Janaka had attained such amazing intelligence, intelligence of observation, intelligence of understanding capability had grown enormously in him. So that is how. Here also it's logic we talk. Only the space is larger than the universe, and nothing else is larger than the universe. Universe is large, but space is much larger, and there is nothing beyond space. That's what Lord Shiva asked Adi Shankara. “If beyond this Brahmanda, the space”—Brahmanda means the absolute which is beyond all imaginations—"If there is anything beyond this space, show me, I will go away”. In the same space you and me both exist. Where will you go? Where will I go? We have to exist in this home only, on this Earth only we have to exist. Where will you go? Where will I go? If you ask, "You go away from the world". That's a different thing, one day the body dies. But if the body dies, what is the guarantee that that soul will not come back with another body? So, like this, if you understand the theory, you can become aware of that truth somewhat, and then the sadhana becomes so easy. You will understand “This is all that I need, I need to become quiet. It is me who is making all noises. I have to become quiet.” Then sadhana becomes very simple and easy.
Question:
Thank you, Baba. I'll read your commentary to question five and six. "When we look at the cloth, seldom do we get to remember or see the thread through which the cloth has come into existence. In the same way, when we see this universe, seldom do we remember or visualize the Self that is Supreme Consciousness. When the mind sees objects in it, it does not get to see itself and forgets the fact that those objects are in the mind, due to imaginations of the mind and nothing but the mind. As the thread in a cloth is invisible, so the Self in the universe is invisible to the ordinary eye. In the same way, until you have the knowledge-awareness of the Self, you cannot see that this universe has come out of the Self only.
Shri Babaji:
You see, from our childhood, somebody who did not have the proper knowledge about the space just told, “Space is a void place”, and we all took it in good faith. Then we all also went on teaching, “This space is a void place”. So none of us actually knew or know what this space is. Without knowing we are claiming and claiming and insisting and insisting, “This is it”. So that is how for an ordinary ‘I’, this is just a void place. A knowledgeable ‘I’, the one who would have gained Realization, experienced the truth of the consciousness of existence, which is infinite—you go introvert, you clear all thoughts and visions in your mind and then when you become the witness of existence, it has no form. It has no color. It doesn't seem to be there, yet it is there. That is how you will be able to make out this space is not an ordinary void place. It is the ultimate truth. It is holding the universe. Universe is not holding the space. You remove the universe and I will show the space is there. But you try to remove the space. You bring any object, anything, any bucket, any drum, any holder; try to hold the space, try to throw it here and there like you throw a ball. You can throw a human being, you can kick a football, but you try to kick the space? You get kicked. [laughs]
Question:
Baba, how does a Self-Realized person see the world? Do they see it as the space? What's predominant in their consciousness and how do they see the world?
Shri Babaji:
A little bit of a clue I will give. You are watching a movie and while watching you are not getting carried away emotionally with the movie. You are very well aware that you are just sitting and you are enjoying. You know the acting is happening in the movie, and you know how the direction has been given, how the cameraman has captured the action, all these things you will understand, you know. You are very well aware that it is only a dramatized action that has been filmed and projected here. So, then you are not getting carried away by that movie as a serious reality, it is just like a vague dream. That is why a yogi is also known as a witness. He is watching this world because the body is there, eyes are there, these physical eyes; through the eyes the Self is watching, but is very well aware this is not a serious entity. This is not a permanent entity. We don't have to mentally bother so much as we used to bother. We don't have to mentally worry. We will attend to everything. If somebody is hungry, we will feed. If our body is hungry, we will feed. If somebody tries to attack this body, we will defend. Everything we will do, but mentally we never get carried away. Mentally, I never lose my peace, always at peace, because nothing is there actually for me except the Self, Myself, that Self.
Question:
So, that Consciousness of Existence is your Self and it's not a personal thing and you are a witness to everything that's happening within that consciousness. Is that correct?
Shri Babaji:
Yes. Everything is within that consciousness.
Question:
And how about the things that appear within the consciousness? Because ultimately, the waves and the droplets and the bubbles, they are also part of the ocean of consciousness. Do you see for example, our bodies and this physical universe or celestial worlds, do you see those also as your Self? Is there only the Self? How's that experience?
Shri Babaji:
Yeah, it's only the Self, because there is no judgment, no analysations, nothing. It has not recognized the picture as it is. That means, if everybody might be identifying a picture as this personality, that personality, but we don't simply get carried away by that identification, because we have experienced the Self. We just get to see the Self. Our attention is on the space, that is the Self. Always it is like that only. Though if somebody scolds me, I might defend. If somebody tries to interfere in my work, I might scold but actually I'm not scolding anybody. Pure Consciousness doesn't hurt anybody actually. It will benefit even if I scold somebody; they will be blessed by the Divinity.
Question:
So, by ‘not carried away’, you mean there is nothing that can happen that would make you lose awareness of your Self as the Consciousness of Existence. Is that what you mean?
Shri Babaji:
Yes, in any circumstance, we don't lose that conscious awareness of the Self. Good and bad, everything keeps happening with our physical body also. Surroundings: somebody will be loyal to us, somebody will try to backstab us, somebody will abuse, somebody will praise. All these things keep happening around, just like any ordinary person.
Question:
Yes, planet Earth, and you're dealing with humans. It's very difficult.
Shri Babaji:
Yes, it’s always there. They won't spare even a yogi also. Prarabdha doesn't spare. It has to happen in this world, but it's really amusing.
END OF ASHTAVAKRA COMMENTARY
Question:
Okay, Baba, do we have time to take some questions?
Shri Babaji:
I think so. Yeah,
Question:
Hello. Pranams Baba. The question I have came very early. So, through this Jangama Dhyana technique we develop this witness consciousness of Ashtavakra. So, are we able to endure the prarabdha karma when it surfaces, and not react? And is that a time process? Because, as we're learning this and meditating daily, over time we come to a point where we don't react to the surfacing of that prarabdha karma and in the development of that witness consciousness through going in that point on a daily basis.
Shri Babaji:
So, is this your question? You have a question on this?
Same questioner:
Yes, is that basically how we develop that over time, through daily practice, we develop that witness?
Shri Babaji:
Exactly, when you practice just watching in between eyebrows, whatever you get to see is your prarabdha, but you don't get carried away. You are only a witness. The very thing that you get to see, the world, is your prarabdha. But you don't get carried away. You are only a witness. That means you remain unaffected. You remain unaffected. You are neither happy nor unhappy.
Question:
So, Baba, that ability to just be the witness, we're really practicing that in meditation, that's what the meditation is, just watching without imagining or engaging any thoughts?
Shri Babaji:
You are actually practicing to remain quiet. The very idea of meditation is you are practicing to remain quiet.
Question:
Namaste, Babaji.
Baba, we consistently say something that has come into existence and has gone out of existence has no real existence value. In other words, something that is temporary has no existence value. So, here's my question. In the present moment, there's no past and there's no future, and in the present moment, temporary and absolute, both exist in equal status within themselves, within the Self. So why do we always throw temporary out with the bathwater? I mean, even temporary has existence value in the sense that it exists in itself in the present moment, when there's no future or past consideration. But we consistently are throwing temporary out. So, that's my question.
Shri Babaji:
You see, when an existence is there, watching that, in which way you want to define depends on your wisdom. The apple is coming down, falling onto the earth. In which way you want to define depends on your intelligence. That's how Newton defined; because of the gravity of earth it is coming down. So many others might not have seen. Like that, when we observed this is impermanent, it appears and disappears. So that is why I tried to tell, this has appearance value, not existence value. Means always it's not going to exist. It appears to be existing; you try to own it, it will disappear. This body appears to be existing, but this has only appearance value. We hold on to it, but the day it dies, you are unable to hold it anymore, this is dead. For this reason, I always have tried to tell this has only appearance value, not the existence value. Whereas your real Self or the space, you try to hold or you don't hold, it will always be there. It will not disappear. Have you ever seen space disappearing? Have you heard anybody telling, the space disappeared? It doesn't happen. That's why that has the existence value. That is the reason I explain about the existence value and the appearance value, whether it is temporary or permanent, depending on that. Like a thing appears and disappears, we call it temporary. We don't call it permanent, depending on that.
Same questioner:
But isn't it true that space is ultimately just a concept, but it's the best explanation we can come out with for the Truth of Existence?
Shri Babaji:
You see, to call space as space is a concept. The name ‘space’ is a concept, but not the thing that exists—that was always there. Whether you call it space, you don't call it space, it exists. Like you call God as God, or you don't want to call God as God. You just want to call it Truth, or you don't want to call it anything, that is there. Like that only.
Same questioner:
Very good explanation. Baba, thank you.
Question:
Thank you so much for this moment. I have a question, because I feel like it is such a force for me to take my eyes up and my mind into here (between the eyebrows), and then I say to myself, just relax and let it come. But it's very tensed, and maybe if I just sit with it, it will kind of ease up. I was just wondering if I’m doing it right or wrong.
Shri Babaji:
One thing, I understand, it doesn't come into one direction easily, eyeballs. They move parallelly. So, there is no need to force it. Slowly and skillfully, you have to make it come. This happens when you just watch the front portion. Even if you are unable to locate the central point, it's no problem. When you close the eyes, whatever is visible, just watch without trying to analyze. That is what is needed. Don't analyze whether you are watching darkness or light. Just watch. Then in due course of time, as the eyeballs become steady, it will start coming into one direction. That means it will come in between eyebrows, so then you won't feel that pressure or that stress. It will be skillfully simple, and you will feel the relaxation and peace, so like that you practice slowly. No need for it to happen overnight. Take your own time.
Question:
Hi, Baba. I find that every day, when I meditate, my personality keeps on changing, and I don't even know who I am anymore, because I keep on changing, and then I'm a new person who I'm not aware of, I mean, I don't know her. Is this what happens throughout our lives? Where do the personalities start? I understand that my personality keeps on dying.
Shri Babaji:
This personality starts by an imagination. It continues by imagining. It will not come to an end until you keep stop imagining.
Same questioner:
So, it'll come to an end when I stop imagining, and it'll be a whole new person?
Shri Babaji:
Imagination has to come to an end, then you will know the real personality of yours. That is revealed.
Question:
Pranams Babaji. There was a quote this week from ‘His Master's Grace’, and it says, "Every day when you get to face tests in life, only then your worthiness is proven". So, when I read that, it's like, we get to have tests, it's a benefit to us, and I assume an attitude of acceptance is important here. How does that influence our worthiness?
Shri Babaji:
See, difficulties come to everybody, but a person becomes great by how he or she is going to face that danger or difficulty or that trouble. Means with courage: “A problem is no problem. It's okay. We will see what happens. Let us see. We will face, we will try. Until the last breath of life we will try. At least when I die, I will have the satisfaction I tried.” These are some of the points we were taught: to feel courageous and to always just face it. That is how you can achieve things.
Question:
Namaste, Babaji. A very simple question, what is the difference between Self-Realization and enlightenment?
Shri Babaji:
Enlightenment is a common word. You can become enlightened of anything. You are enlightened about this world. Though synonymously, usually it is used for Self-Realization only, but Self-Realization is particularly used when you realize your real Self, but you are enlightened means, of what are you enlightened? So, that is what is the difference, actually. Enlightenment is a common word, and Self-Realization is a particular word.
Question:
Pranams Babaji. I've always loved this story of Sri Adi Shankaracharya and Lord Shiva comes as the villager. I was just wondering if Baba could tell me if there is a text or a book that this story originates from or is recorded, so that I could read it.
Shri Babaji:
Which one you are talking, villager?
Same questioner:
Adi Shankaracharya and Lord Shiva come as the villager with the alcohol. A story you always tell.
Shri Babaji:
Yes, That comes in the biography of Adi Shankaracharya. I don't remember the title or writer now. As a young boy, during my high school days I had read this, that's what I remember. Maybe any of Adi Shankara's biographies, yeah, in the biography of Adi Shankara, it is there. If you try to find it online, you might get it.
Question:
Pranams Babaji, thank you so much. I had a question about the meditation instructions. So, since we've heard this so many times, because Babaji has said, “Don't recite any mantra or word”. Yet, I find when my mind starts to wander during the meditation, I hear your instructions in my mind, "Focus your mind and sight in between the eyebrows". As it comes up, I use that as a way to reinforce the witnessing. So, it seems like it is kind of like a mantra, so I'm wondering about that.
Shri Babaji:
It's okay. It's okay to use for a while, and then become silent again.
Question:
You had mentioned in the Bhagavad Gita, during the war when Arjuna refuses to fight, Lord Krishna urges him to take up arms, and He further convinces him that the enemy force is already killed, and all he has to do is the task of fighting the battle. So there, He is asking him to surrender, though the battlefield is such a gory scene, with blood bathed bodies and a mutilated scene. So, even in a battlefield, if one has the total surrender, does it accomplish the same task of silencing the mind and not engaging in the actual gore of war?
Shri Babaji:
Yeah. When you are facing such a situation, your mental status is what is important. Like for example, you are fighting for dharma, for righteousness, you are defending your country—any such thing enables you to keep your mind in an exalted position so that it becomes totally focused and remains quiet. It has no attachment to any result. Either you do it or you die, both are equally acceptable. That is why that status is known as almost coming to the same like meditation, quietening the mind.
Question:
Pranams Babaji, thank you so much. I was wondering on meditation, can it just be sort of concentrating on almost a feeling of the Self, and just trying to stay there? If so, is it helpful when you kind of lose that, outside of meditation, to try to think of that feeling again, to remind yourself or to think the thought that “I am actually divine. I am actually not this body”, to have that thought to remind yourself?
Shri Babaji:
Yes, as long as you try to stick to one type of thought, that can be very helpful. Like, if this is one thought, you will not allow many other thoughts to crop up. Then it is fine. When you say that “I am that divine, I am not this body”, then you don't say further that others are not divine. You just stick to “I am divine. I am divine”. Then it is helpful. It will benefit you to remain single-pointed and become quiet eventually.
Same questioner:
Okay, thank you.
I was just asking a question on meditation technique. To me, it feels as though it's a balance of focusing with willpower, but not too much, so it doesn't force, but also relaxing and sort of surrendering. Is it true that it is sort of a fine balance, between those two?
Shri Babaji:
Yes, exactly. That's what I try to teach, remain relaxed and skillfully and slowly, you don't have to be rushing. It need not happen in one moment. Let it happen. Let it take its own time. Have that attitude, then you will have patience and you will not feel stress. Slowly, slowly you practice, it will come.
Question:
Babaji, what is the difference between Self-Realization and God-Realization? Is there any difference?
Shri Babaji:
Same. It is the same. No difference. It is the same. Whether you call it God-Realization or Self-Realization, is all the same. When you are an individual imagined self, it is God. The ultimate truth is. When you merge with it, it is the same one single Self that exists. Thus both are the same, they are not different entities.
Question:
Baba, Could I comment on that or ask a question? You know, you can experience, people do experience entities, deities while deep in meditation, and they could say that they had God-Realization, the realization of a personal God, but yet, the Self, the Divinity, Supreme God, is far beyond that. Could you talk about that?
Shri Babaji:
Yes. You see, somebody comes to your home and gets to see you for two minutes or five minutes. How can they say, “I had Agastya’s realization”? Have they realized entirely what you are, what is your temperament, what is your wisdom, what is your idea, what you are thinking in your mind? Can they tell everything? They would have just seen your physical figure; how can they claim they have come to know everything about you? If one human being they are unable to know, when they claim they saw God manifesting, how can they claim that they have become Realized; they have come to know everything about God? Not at all. When they claim they have realized God, they have not realized anything at all. Just by seeing a God’s figure is not realization. The realization is that the individual imagined self must disappear. The ‘I’ has to go, that has to get absorbed into the ultimate Truth. Then there is no seer and seen. When there is no duality, somebody realizing another person doesn't arise at all. Even if I claim I am Self-Realized, it has no meaning. It doesn't make any sense. When ‘I’ am not there at all, where is the question of ‘I’ becoming Self-Realized? When that is the state, that is not the thing. Mind has to merge with the Self, the individual ‘I’ has to disappear. The seer and seen both have to disappear. Only one single Self exists.
Question:
I just had another question, Babaji.
I'm looking at Ishavasya Upanishad. I have a translation, I wanted you to comment. I'm trying to understand it the way you would understand it. "Oh Sun god, the divine form of Brahman. Thou art the Nourisher, the solitary traveler, the controller, the acquirer, and the son of Prajapati. Do remove your rays and gather your brightness so that I may be able to see or realize your divine form by your grace, and thereby realize the ultimate reality, that I am the person who is present in the solar orb." I was wondering, why is he saying to remove your rays?
Shri Babaji:
When the glare happens from too much light, like suddenly in front of you the sun comes, you cannot see anything else. Your eyes get totally closed. You are unable to see. Even in front of the headlight of a car, you are unable to see. That glare is what is mentioned here. The Divine might remove and give you the Divya Chakshu (Divine sight) so that you can see the Divinity. The ‘I’ may disappear and thus merge with the Self, so that we realize the Self by overcoming, just like you overcome the solar lights. When you see where the solar light is hitting, that object becomes visible, but if you stand opposite it, nothing is visible to you.
Same questioner:
So why is he saying, gather your brightness? Is he saying, withdraw your rays, so that it becomes single-pointed?
Shri Babaji:
Yes, single-pointed.
Same questioner:
So that I can see you without seeing the other things, right?
Shri Babaji:
Yeah, so that the ‘I’ can merge in you without seeing anything else.
Question:
Which is what we are doing in our Jangama meditation. We are trying to get single-pointed.
Shri Babaji:
Exactly, exactly. That's what you are trying to do when you are just watching in between eyebrows.
Question:
There is one question, Baba, in the chat.
Pranam, Babaji, when I am meditating, I feel some sensation which flows from the center of my forehead to the center of my head, like something is getting released, which makes me want to be in the state for a long time, but I'm not able to maintain that state for long. Is this something that is good, or am I just overthinking?
Shri Babaji:
You might be overthinking, because if you practice, that should be naturally there, then you won't be able to come out easily. You will continue in that one. So just by reading or listening to people talk don't try to imagine any such thing. Simply see that you gather your mind in between eyebrows only. So, until it gets totally purified 100%, then only you will feel that you are here. That happens only when you are ready to go to Samadhi. Just by listening to these talks or theories, one should not try to imagine that you have come here. These things don't happen easily. Just try to meditate and achieve total peace first, then you can be guided to go into that state.
Facilitator:
Okay, Baba, thank you again for a beautiful Satsang and sharing all your wisdom with us.
End of Session