Who am I - mind, body, brain | In Quest of Truth - Q&A with Babaji, No.209

Register your free place for the live online meditation and Q&A with Babaji: https://www.shivarudrabalayogi.org/en/online-satsang 

Who am I - mind, body, brain | In Quest of Truth - Q&A with Babaji, No.209
Recorded on 23 November 2024 with worldwide participants.

0:00 Intro
0:25 Is it correct to say that when we observe the mind, we are observing data that has been sent to our brains from our senses?
5:06 Is there a difference between the expressions 'not real' and 'impermanent'?
13:19 Is the brain our enemy which is deceiving us?
17:29 when we sit and try to meditate is there something different between the mind and brain?
22:31 When the mind is observing, watching the screen, is that then the I?
24:04 How did Babaji come to recognise the relationship between the mind and the brain?
32:29 Thoughts seem to spring up from nowhere. How do they come about?
39:01 With continuous practice will we start to understand the mind, body and brain in its true sense?
40:33 A steam of consciousness of 'Who am I' arose but it is very transient - how to make it consistent?
43:04 Is boht the mind and the Self, consciousness and energy?
43:07 Can the higher potency consciousness influence the lower potency mind or brain?
44:50 How can one get influenced by a Guru's vibrations?
45:55 When going to divine places, the mind becomes quiet and it is easier to meditate there.  Why is this?
46:57 Is there any difference between Shankaracharya's philosophy and the Yoga Vasistha?
48:16 As long as there is the body will there always be some suffering?
49:13 As long as the physical appearance is there, is it possible to have absolute peace?
51:37 In deep sleep there is world or experience at all, similarly for a Realised Yogi is there any experience at all?
53:32 Will our skill and knowledge carry to the next body?

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Transcript

Who am I - mind, body, brain | In Quest of Truth - Q&A with Babaji, No. 209

Recorded on 23 November 2024 with worldwide participants

Question:

Baba, one aspect of Babaji's teachings which seems very unique to me is Babaji's explanation of the relationship between the brain and the mind. And I was hoping to explore that again today a little bit more. 

So, Babaji, is it correct to say that when we observe the world, we are just observing data that's been sent to our brains through the nervous system, through our senses like sight and hearing and touch and so on? 

Shri Babaji:

Yeah, definitely. This is what my experience was also, and my opinion. Because of the brain we have obtained consciousness of this world, universe. And whatever we experience, we are actually experiencing the reflections of the brain. As you also said, the brain is in touch with the universe through its nervous system and the sensory organs are all there. And when it receives the message and it passes on the message order also, in that process it reflects every message it receives as a thought process or as a visual effect. These two things are what happens. So, we watch that and register in ourselves. 

Now, I have changed the language if you observe. Hitherto I have spoken many times the mind watches and the mind registers in itself, because this mind is nothing but ‘we’ actually. ‘We’ are the pure consciousness here. Combination of pure consciousness and energy. The mind; we call it ‘mind’ when there are thoughts in the mind. We register and thoughts come, visions come, so we call it as mind, “My mind. My mind wants to do. My mind thinks like this. This is my opinion.” So, finally, it is ‘me’ actually. the mind is nothing but ‘me’. Thus, we get to see the reflections of the brain and we register it in ourselves as if it is a reality, this is the process that happens. Means we simply believe whatever the brain reflects. We don't know whether it is good or bad. We don't know whether it is useful for us or not. Yet, we consider it and we take it. 

Of course, brain is a wonderful, intelligent agent. Just like nowadays we talk of artificial intelligence. This we can call as a natural intelligence that is in the body. So, through that only we obtain. Also, when we apply the brains, we are able to apply our wisdom. Our thinking capacity. Like, when we are able to think, we should be able to discriminate also what is right, what is good. By watching what is in front of us as the universe we should be able to observe certain realities. Like, great geniuses in science also, spirituality also, they all have observed. If astronomers observe the stars and moons and planets and every such thing, the scientists also observed in their own way, spirituality, yogis, our ancient sages also observed in our own way. 

So, one such thing was that the universe is impermanent. That is the discrimination. It is not going to be holding the same shape at all times. The shape changes. That we call as the time passing by. As the time passes by, everything changes. Like, our own physical body, we would remember that as a five-year-old, ten-year-old, as a youth, as a young man. And we come to the old age, everything, it changes. And this passing of the time we try to call “This is my 70th birthday”; that means the body is 70 years. Sometimes jokingly, we say, “I have gone 70 times around the sun.” So, that type of thing all we recognize, we understand. This is what I would like to say in my opinion, in my observation. 

Question:

Babaji is saying that the brain is processing all this information and then it's showing it to the mind like a movie on a screen. 

Shri Babaji:

Yes. 

Question:

So, Babaji sometimes uses the word that it's not real, or Baba has said that it's not permanent. Is there a difference between those expressions, Babaji? 

Shri Babaji:

We try to use it as ‘impermanent’. If we more say ‘not real’, people may get confused. “When there is something in front of my eyes, how can it be unreal?” That's what it is. So, either way, you cannot prove whether this exists or not exists. For that I have told, this universe has only appearance value, because it changes constantly of its form, its shape, everything. If one has 100 years for a change, another may have 1000 years, another may have a million years. And the universe may have some billions of years, but finally one day it will change. The shape will go away. It may even disappear. Like, if the black hole consumes something, that thing simply disappears into the black hole. Nobody still knows what happens afterwards. This is what. 

Though in Vedas and Upanishads we get to hear, like the “Purnamadah purnamidam”. When this universe is not there, it would have gone back to that Self, that means the space that is all pervading. How? Clue and example is our own mind. Everything that appears is within the mind. You may have your own world; a story, characters, things happening in your mind. And the mind is the creative agent, that is the thing which has created. But it has created in itself. So, thus all the thoughts and visions, the world, whatever is in the mind cannot go beyond mind. It is no such thing. So, thus it remains within the mind. And also, raw material for the production of all this matter that is in the mind is mind itself. So, because it is the raw material, it means it has come out of the mind only. Like, as Kathopanishad talks, when the divine, the Ultimate Truth wanted to create – probably, that's an imagination of a poet – wanting to create, or it just created as there was no other raw material. So, the divine created the universe in itself. So, the universe is within the divine. That is the ‘Brahmanda’ word used by ancient sages, ‘Brahmanda’. ‘Anda’ is the absoluteness actually, which is like an egg-shaped type, which has no beginning and no end, that type of thing. The ‘Brahma’ which can create an illusion, which does not really exist. All these things have spoken. 

So, we can also take the clue from the mind itself. When you stop thinking, all the things that are in your mind as a form of vision or thought simply dissolve into the mind. It disappears. You call it evaporating or dissolving. So, it has to go back to the mind only. There is no other place for it to go. Beyond the mind there is nothing. So, that is how, wherever the universe is there, all pervaded is the truth, the Ultimate Truth, what we try to address as the divinity. Thus, the divinity is all pervaded, and every matter is within that divinity. When this divinity finally would disappear once for all. This a yogi experiences from Samadhi to Nirvikalpa Samadhi time. Because that is an individual experience, it cannot be demonstrated and proved. A master, a guru can give the clue how you can achieve the Samadhi. By quietening your mind, then you yourself will know, that is how great masters have always told. Whether in Yoga Vasistha or any such things, such great scriptures, they all have told that, even Viveka Choodamani, it is all individual experience. This is my opinion. Now, you adopt the methods I have advocated and you practice. When you achieve the truth, you will know what the truth is, and then you can have your own opinion. So, that is what I have always tried to tell. Registering mind, registering mind, holding and the disappearing – the same way the universe also, that is the clue. 

Though just now, because our body and the mind is within this universe. I have always told, important, this universe has been created by a higher potency consciousness, not by the human mind. Means, whatever we are in this body, the potency is very less. If it is just 10%, then its 100,000% is that Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, those concepts. Some people might ask, “Can a Yogi when He merges with the divine, can He create such a world?” That must not be adopted at all, because you will lose merging with the divinity. That is vital, that is the recommended goal. So, when you go for that, you won't bother to create anything. It is all in imagination only. Imagined substance only. 

So, now, one more important point even now also, if you see, you are your mind. You cannot touch physically any of the matter that is available, entire universe. Only through the physical body only you can touch and take it in your hand. One matter, touching the other. But, the mind can in consciousness only touch, but physically, it cannot touch. Thus, it cannot really have anything. That is the reason some sages have told, “Though the body is eating, the ‘I’ is not eating anything.” Even the food also. It is fed to the body by the body, for sake of the body so that the body is sustained. But, for the mind to remain sustained, you don't need that type of food that is to be given to this physical body. So, these are some of the clues, some of our observations, some of the things to tell how it is unreal. Though, I don't emphasize too much about the unreal thing. I try to emphasize as only appearance value and not an existence value, or it is simply an impermanent thing which will change. At least, this would be acceptable to everybody immediately. 

Question:

Thank you, Baba. Babaji, then the brain is not our enemy, it is not deceiving us. 

Shri Babaji:

It is not at all an enemy. It is simply there. Just like the knife is not our enemy. It depends on our wisdom, where we are going to use it; to cut the vegetables or cut somebody's head. It makes a difference in the attitude. So, brain is there. It can be our best friend; it can become our enemy if we don't use it properly. For this I have told, “Brain can be a very good servant but a bad master.” Without applying proper wisdom, if we use the brains, the brain can fool us. We can get ourselves fooled by the reflections of the brain. The brain has nothing to do; a computer or any such thing is not at all an enemy. We are our enemies. If we use the computer only for chit chatting, gossiping and a waste of energy and time, we are our enemy and the computer is not an enemy. If we utilize the same computer, it is such an amazing artificial intelligence. 

Today, artificial intelligence is every day we get to see in the news, the world is slowly adopting and adopting and adopting. But it is a different thing. Some scary things are also coming. Some wrong-headed, crook-headed people are adopting it for some crooked things, for cheating, for criminal activities, for warfares, for this. We only hope that humans will adopt any such intelligence for peace and harmony. So like, we are doing the zoom through this computer only. It is such a wonderful thing. We are utilizing it. Now, this computer is our friend. In the same way, the brain also, it can be our best friend if we use it properly, if we apply our wisdom. 

How can we apply the wisdom? If you purify the mind of its thoughts and visions, when the mind is most concentrated – when such a mind applies the brain, it will apply like a genius. It will have the best judgment capabilities, thinking capabilities. Means, understanding the truth. I have always told, different children when they are born, as they grow up they carry different observation and understanding capabilities. You see a certain thing, you get attracted to wrong things. If you see the computer and you would like to gossip and waste your time and energy, wrong things. Because you are not applying your intelligent wisdom properly. If you utilize it, you are applying your wisdom properly. It is all left with us. 

Nature, everything – finally, one sentence you all will agree; inventions, discoveries, anything that we have got – today, in warfares, weapons systems are there which can travel 10 times the sound, 13,000 kilometers or miles and so on and on, we get to see so much that has been invented, discovered. Means, the theory has been discovered, machine has been invented. It was all in the nature and it is in the nature. The nature is the wonder. Nature is the divinity. That has, that is why the divinity has been accepted as the ‘Omnipotent’, ‘All in all’ – everything arises from that. Go and merge, just exist supremely peacefully. That is the observations. 

Question:

Thank you, Babaji. Then, Babaji, when we sit to try to meditate, is there something different happening between the mind and the brain? 

Shri Babaji:

Yeah, mind, on its own is trying to become quiet. There are two aspects, it can think and it can watch. If we achieve just watching, that's why repeatedly we try to advise, “When thoughts and visions come, don't get involved with them. Don't try to analyze whether it is good or bad, whether you want to get excited or not, you disappointed anything. You discard everything and just watch. Then, mind becomes quiet.” So, when it becomes quiet, slowly it gets detached from the brain's reflections. During tapas and deeper meditation one needs to take a little bit of food, it’s very much essential to sustain the physical body. The mind, a little bit of our consciousness in touch with the brain and the breathing also needs to go slowly and smoothly. So, these things are vital. So, oxygen also has to go to brain. You must not starve your body or the brain from oxygen, even if you are doing tapas also, the practice must be there. [hiccups] These hiccups threaten sometimes, hahaha.. what to do. [resumes] And that is what it is important. 

So, thus, you will be able to apply the wisdom properly and you are trying to withdraw yourself from the brain's reflections, at least during meditation. Afterwards, you can always use the brain. That is why spirituality is a natural process without harming the health of the brain. That is how we also conclude, mind is not a by-product of the brain. Mind is a separate entity here. In the end, you will understand, brain has come into existence by the visualization of the mind. So, this is a very mind-boggling thing, afterwards, some other time we can discuss. So, mind is totally different, not a by-product of the brain. So, that is how you are able to withdraw the mind. Otherwise, simply by controlling the brain, you could have controlled the mind also. That is what alcoholics, drug addicts, all these people, they achieve a temporary blissfulness because when the brain's reflections waves are suppressed, mind has nothing to catch. So, temporarily, mind becomes unconscious of the surroundings and the world, universe. Then, it starts thinking that it is enjoying happiness because of this [drug]. And such a person becomes addicted. 

As he becomes addicted, unfortunately he goes on spoiling the health of the brain and the body's physical parts in every way. Then, gradually, he will become a slave and he will not be able to use the brains at all properly. All the time, they would like to be drinking or on the drug. Many youth are wasting their life, such a beautiful physical body. They are wasting. We get to see the photos sometimes, college students becoming drug addicted and are lying on the roads somewhere else, in the parks, they are doing nonsense things. All such spoiling things, it is so sad. So, these things are happening. They don't realize what they are losing. But meditation is a natural process where no health is affected. Because, when you come out of meditation, you can always use the brain and use your mind also to think, discriminate, make proper judgments, take proper decisions, live a stress-free life, our memory power, intelligence, everything tremendously increased. Your capacity to use the brain increases. 

Question:

Thank you, Baba. Babaji, when the mind is observing, is that mind the one watching the screen? Is that then the ‘I’? 

Shri Babaji:

Yeah, it is the same ‘I’. You watch the brain's reflections and you absorb and register it in yourself as if it is a fundamental reality. And that you come to know as your mind. You call it your ‘mind’, ‘my mind’. Usually people don't think “I am thinking” – they also talk, but they don't realize it is they, mind is nothing but they themselves. They think that mind is some substance, some different substance other than them, as ‘my mind’, but where is this ‘mind’? Nobody can see it in naked eyes. Nobody can tell the location of the mind. Yet everybody knows there is a mind. 

They, depending on the thoughts and visions that are in the mind, based on that only you recognize that you have a mind. You have a mind means here, you have the thinking capacity, you have the watching capacity. Through the eyes you watch, you get to see this world, and through the nose you absorb the oxygen, through the mouth you try to talk, though you don't talk anything; all these things are possible. 

Question:

Babaji, this technical relationship between the mind and the brain, I have not seen anybody else speak of it. Is it possible for Babaji to explain how He came to understand this relationship? Or is it not possible? 

Shri Babaji:

Somehow, probably before the actual ‘Samadhi’, in deeper meditations I went on observing. “What is it that is thinking? What is it that reflects and why the ‘I’ is forced to think? How did I become habitual to thinking like this? There must be some instrument, watching that I have spoiled myself. That bad company, a wrong company, inexperienced company.” Something like that I used to watch and observe. So, then a little bit of knowledge of the science of the brain. We are not thorough scholars of the brain, there are brain experts and neurosurgeon people, neuroscientists are there. Based on their own findings, their teachings only combined with our own observation only I could understand this much. Watching the mind and the brain's reflections. And I was convinced, my mind is not a by-product of the brain. The mind is me. It is mine. I am the one who thinks. But the brain is making us to think. The brain can make us think if we are unable to defend ourselves; it will force us whatever it reflects. 

Like for example, I remember once my teacher said in high school, “If another country invades us and destroys us, our culture, our independence, everything, that means we must think the first fault is ours, that we were unable to defend ourselves. We were not ready to defend ourselves. We did not have any preparation and patriotism that was necessary, unity that was necessary. That is why historically many different races, different people came invading us, and destroyed our culture”, like that he used to say. This sat in my mind, this sentence. That means first fault is ours. We must accept that we were not ready to defend ourselves. 

So, in the same way here also, based on that I started thinking, if we are simply becoming a victim of brain's reflections, we cannot blame the brain entirely. Brain is only a biological organ. We have to take responsibility that we did not practice anything properly to defend ourselves, to take proper decisions, to make proper judgments, to use the brain in a proper way. That is the thing. A small child I have seen, a video game has been downloaded and given to it so that the mother can relax. The child goes on watching, keeping it close to the eyes. The child does not know whether it is harmful or not, is unable to make out. It simply gets attracted and goes on watching, goes on watching. So, it is unable to apply its wisdom at that age. The brain has not yet grown well. As Adi Shankara tells, childhood can be quite dangerous. If proper guidance it is not getting and slowly as it picks up, it should have its own observation capacity, understanding capacity; if it is not there… 

See, generally, people, humans of this world, they get carried away into wrong paths, worst, bad paths also they get carried away. Then one day they might regret, “I wish I had somebody who could guide me”. A few people at least have expressed it to me, “Babaji, I wish I had found you much before, many years ago.” I said “The time has to come, at least I am happy that you are understanding me what I am trying to tell.” In the same way, the cell phone has nothing wrong to do. You are allowing it to spoil you. A computer is nothing wrong. If we allow the computer to spoil us, so we are responsible for that. So, that is what is important. That's when Adi Shankara talks of ‘Satsanga’, company of the right type of people, a saint, a noble. Like if you're in the company, I won't advocate you to go and drink alcohol. I will advocate that you meditate. These are the reasons. If you ask questions, I will answer; “These are the things you can achieve. These are the things you can defend yourself. You can live a better matured, beautiful life. You can take care of your physical health, mental health and moral health. Everything you can take care of. Do not become a victim of extreme anger, jealousy, extreme greed, all these things. You can take care of yourself if you practice meditation.” Like that we advocate, we try to advise. 

Finally, I tell, “It is up to you, you practice and see the truth to yourself. “This is what I could achieve. That is how I could become intelligent or watchful about my habits and all such things. Many times, I used to see, in our youth time, a couple of such gurus we have seen, they used to be chain smokers. Their devotees would defend them, “Our master keeps smoking continuously so that he should not go into samadhi.” You are an intelligent person, Bruce, tell me, does this make any sense? We are spoiling the physical health, and watching as a guru, somebody else might also pick up the same habit. “Arey our guru was smoking cigarettes. I can also smoke.” Like that, they can pick up wrong habits. To avoid samadhi, that is not the thing. There are other beautiful, natural ways are there. You show your attachment to your guru. Maintain a little bit of sathvik ego which is not harmful to your real Self and your physical body also. 

So, that is the wisdom application that has to happen. Under no circumstances you must practice any such thing to keep you away from samadhi, which can be spoiling the physical health. Physical health is such a vital thing to remain in this world. As long as I am able to keep the health of this body at the age of 70, I am able to sit for two to three hours and talk to you all, conduct meditation, answer your questions, is possible. If the health is gone, gone. Babaji is no more useful. That's what happens. These are the things we have to apply wisdom. Understand certain things. And we need to learn to defend ourselves, our mind, our consciousness, our purity. Satsanga, as I was talking Adi Shankara telling. Satsanga is equivalent to great Tapas. Otherwise, if it is a ‘Dursanga ‘ a company of the wrong people, they will put you into wrong habits and you are gone. You are wasting your life. 

Question:

Thank you, Babaji. Babaji, in our mind, thoughts seem to just spring up from nowhere. How do they come about? Are they from imprints in the mind mixed with information being fed to the brain?

Shri Babaji:

A couple of things. One is, the consciousness what we are has the capability to be creative. This is one thing. Another thing, for normal people the mind keeps rising with millions of thoughts. That is because of acquired habits that one would have picked up since time immemorial. See, in this life also, what is the process that happens technologically? You, as the mind, watch a certain thing, an object surrounding you, around you or in this world, long distance, short distance, anyway. And you watch and recognize the existence of such a thing. Then you would analyze. You analyze because you want to know what it is. But finally, you may know, or you may not know what it is of. If already somebody has named it, somebody has defined it, you might simply accept in good faith. 

Like, “This is an apple”. Nobody really knows what it is, if you apply your wisdom. But it is a different thing; the whole world might call it ‘apple’, I accept, I agree. That's because simply one is following the other’s acceptance. One is following the others. Somebody named it as ‘apple’. And he tried to teach it as ‘apple’. That person accepted it as ‘apple’. So, generation after generation, everybody is calling. So, this is helpful in this world, definitely. Communication: whenever you want to eat an apple, you can tell “I need an apple”. Somebody will bring that thing for you to eat. That way it is helpful. But we do not know what it is. This capacity is there. 

But finally, this is what when you go for the Ultimate Truth. Simply, the ancient Sages said that is divine in nature because two reasons; it can destroy our unhappiness once for all and give us a supreme peace. Also, it can destroy our sin. Here ‘our sin’ means grave mistake. Forgetting ourselves is a grave mistake we are putting ourselves into. Like, you go out of your home. If you forget to come back to your home, you can be putting yourself in an ugly situation. Means if you have forgetfulness, if you have Alzheimer, you do not know where to return, you do not know who you are. Then somebody will have to write a name and address and glue it so that if somebody sees you, they can bring you home. How dangerous that can be. 

In the same way, Self-Realization. That is what the Sages recommended. You have forgotten yourself. You need to know yourself. Swamiji said “Meditate and know yourself”. That sin will be washed away when you adopt the remembrance of that divinity. That is why it is divine in nature. So, that is how they recognize ‘That’. Otherwise, when you become That, it is simply That. It is neither this nor that, it is That. It is there and it is not that. What do you name? 

So, we have adopted every name for sake of communication in this world. It is useful in this world, but not for the ultimate knowledge. So, we should not get carried away. This knowledge, at least if we have – these names we have adopted so that we can communicate and understand with each other. That much is good. More than that, we do not get carried away and get attached to ‘apple’. That we don't want to die giving up this apple. We don't want to die giving up this property of the ashram, “I have to be attached all the time”. That is the wrong thing, we will be miserable. 

Like this, the mind recognizes, analyzes and makes a judgment in that process; “This is apple. This is mine. This is not mine.” And it absorbs an imprint. This is what I keep trying to tell as ‘acquired habits of the mind’ which is coming since time immemorial. When it started, there is no conclusive answer. Simply the masters say, as soon as possible get rid of this so that you can know yourself. So, that is how these are there. When you close the eyes, it gets stirred and all these thoughts and visions come up. They all get dissolved if you just keep watching them, don't bother about them. That is all the trick and technology, technique, that's what. If you hold on to it, means if you call it, “Oh, you are this, good, you are the bad”, then your mind holds on to that one. That's why we tell the six enemies of human mind; greed, anger, jealousy, all this, whoever has got these in their mind, their mind is the first casualty I keep telling always in my teachings and talkings. 

So, that is how these things happen. When you meditate, if thoughts and visions come, don't worry for a while. Let it happen, allow it to happen. It will all go away if you simply just keep watching. That is the technique and the idea of meditating. The rest all can be myths and so many myths and myths and myths. Drop all ideas. Just ‘watch’ in meditation. You will win. 

Question:

Thank you, Babaji. Baba, we have had a question sent in by a Bhaskar. I wonder if I can ask that question please before we invite other people to ask. 

Shri Babaji:

Yes. Okay, okay. 

Question:

The question is, though mind seems to understand the difference of mind, body and brain, it doesn't understand in its true sense. Is that what will slowly seep in with continuous practice? 

Shri Babaji:

Yes. That's why you need to practice. Practicing to quieten the mind so that it gives up first all its acquired habits. That is the important thing. If a certain thing has gone into a wrong path, to rectify is the most difficult thing. To teach a new thing is easy. If already your head is spoiled with so many ideas and myths, to cleanse that is the meditation practice. Slowly, if you practice, understand the technique that you just have to be watching. Your ability to watch is the meditation and tapas. First, one hour of practice. Don't be in a rush that you want to become Self-Realized tonight itself. It will happen slowly. Don't look back unnecessarily. Keep going, keep going. You will become quiet. 

Question:

Thank you, Babaji. If Babaji has time, could we invite people to ask questions please, Baba? 

Shri Babaji:

Yeah, I think we have about 20 minutes probably. I can take a few questions. 

Question:

Babaji, I have a question. What happened is that a few years ago, I have read the Bhagavad Gita chapter 3. In that, Sri Krishnaji has said that you should work without being attached to the fruits of the action. So, I followed it for quite a few months. And what happened to me is that, when one day I was sitting in my room, one question came in my mind about “Who am I?”. So, suddenly I have noticed that there was a stream of consciousness that developed in me. But it changed my life very much. But it is very transient, it comes and goes. So, I was thinking of why this consciousness is not consistent? And how I can make it consistent? 

Shri Babaji:

Yeah, actually this is not consistent because it has acquired other habits of thinking also, as I was explaining in the last question; since time immemorial so many lives have passed, it has acquired such habits. They all have to get erased and dissolve within the mind. For that only you practice meditation. Anything – some of the great Self-Realized teachers all have advocated the same thing, maybe in different terminologies. Like Ramana Maharishi said, “Closing the eyes, observe from where the ‘I’ is coming.” So, if you get totally concentrated on that consciousness of existence, then all other thoughts and visions go away. This will happen eventually in due course of time. Without losing patience you go on meditating like this. Just observe in between eyebrows. And that is what you will be doing, you will be observing from where the ‘I’ is coming. So, then other thoughts as they go out, this will stay consistently. The time increases of this experience of yours. You need to practice more. 

Question:

Pranams Babaji. Mind is consciousness and energy and Self is also consciousness and energy, both are same?

Shri Babaji:

Yes, both are same actually, both are same. In a miniature way you think of the mind, and the Self is also the same. Self is also a combination of pure… For sake of clue only I am giving. Finally, there is no explanation of the Ultimate Truth. It is beyond. However, for understanding, Self also is same consciousness and energy. 

Question:

Namaste Babaji. You just said energy field or potency of mind varies from one to one. So, as you said, the Brahma, Vishnu is much more mega potency than normal beings like us. So, higher potency can influence the lower potency of the brain or the mind? 

Shri Babaji:

Yes. For that purpose only devotion or meditation, all these are taught. So, when you are onto this path, you are actually trying to connect yourself to that higher potency. Like this, if the master is a yogi, he will advocate, “Go on doing, quieten the mind, quieten the mind”. Thus, you will get connected to even beyond of the Brahma Vishnu concepts of the Parabrahman, Ultimate Truth. So, that is how they will influence. They will absorb you back. 

Question:

I have one more question, Babaji. In that case, like a flow of river, washes easily and smoothens rigid or coarse things, there is in the same way Guru’s grace and yogi’s ever flowing radiance or vibrations, whatever we call it. So, a being which come across them, based on their absorption capabilities will also get influenced and helped?

Shri Babaji:

One needs to practice a little bit with total faith. That faith called dam needs to be built. Because the Guru’s grace is flowing. For you to become the catchment area, you have to build up the faith and devotion. Then that grace can be received, you will become receptive – that is also necessary. As the broadcast is happening, receptiveness is also necessary. Then you will obtain the grace. 

Question: 

My question is, we go to some places like tirtha kshetra, or some divine places. So, the mind becomes quiet actually, and it is easy to meditate there. But when we come back, it becomes harder. So, why it happens like that? 

Shri Babaji:

Actually, it is the faith that has been built and cultivated that “This is the pilgrimage center”. There the manifestation of the vibrations will be definitely more because of the continuous worship, aradhana of the divinity there; the manifestation will be stronger, and then you also would have built the faith and devotion. Gradually, when you practice meditation, then you will develop the same faith and devotion, will be able to experience that divinity everywhere consistently, that would be possible. 

Question: 

Jai Babaji, greetings from Chile. I have a question. I don't know if you can answer this question now. It's about if there is any difference between Sankara Chariya's philosophy and Yoga Vasishtha. I have some access to reading these texts, a little bit of them. I don't know if it’s the right source, but I feel much more comfort when I read Yoga Vasishtha. It seems there's a difference, but I'm not sure. If you can explain, thank you. 

Shri Babaji:

Not much difference is there. Only in terms of terminologies and direct - indirect. I definitely agree, whereas Yoga Vasishtha talks in a much simpler way, directly, exactly as it is it has been explained – to some people Yoga Vasishtha may be suitable and understandable. In fact, my Master Shivabalayogi also always recommended Yoga Vasishtha for us to read initially. He used to say, “If you read and understand Yoga Vasishtha, you don't have to read anything else.” That contains the truth as it is in a simple, direct way. 

Question:

Namaste, Babaji. My question is, as long as there's the body, will there always be some suffering? Or is it possible even when you're in the body to completely not have suffering? 

Shri Babaji:

Physical body is likely to have any suffering, illness, because it is impermanent. The body is made up like that; anytime anything happens. It has its own limitations. We might try as much as possible whatever knowledge is available, like intake of the food and how we keep with yoga and exercises; that might help a long way though. But finally, it has its limitations. A physical body may suffer before we drop it sometimes. 

Question:

But the other aspect, Babaji is, when you talk about reflected consciousness, ‘chidabhasa’. So, just as when the sun reflects on the surface of water, it can be a very pure reflection. But until the water dries up, it's still a reflected consciousness. When there's no water spontaneously, the merger to pure consciousness happens without any effort. So, the question really is, as long as there's an instrument, is it like chidabhasa where there's the potential for ignorance and avarana and vikshepa and therefore suffering, mental suffering? That's why they say Mahasamadhi versus Samadhi. As long as the physical appearance is there, is it possible to have absolute peace?

Shri Babaji:

Yes, if one has achieved Self-Realization, even if the body suffers for some reason, the inner consciousness will be the ever silent one. Like Ramana Maharshi also has put, “A yogi, even if he's gossiping a lot, he's the ever silent one”. Because his consciousness has become quiet and merged with the Self. That is what is the chidabhasa you are feeling. So, yogi is settled into the Self.

The body might undergo some sort of suffering or some illness. Like great sages also underwent like Ramakrishna or Ramana Maharshi, they all did. But however, the consciousness will not feel it. It will not suffer in any way. It is settled into the final Self. So, it will simply wait for the body to get dropped. And then the Mahasamadhi happens. That's how when a yogi drops the body, it is said it is Mahasamadhi because the consciousness, which was there until then as a ‘jivanmukta’ will achieve the ‘videhamukta’ by totally merging once for all with the Ultimate Truth. 

Question:

And my final question, in deep sleep there is no world and no experience at all. But the Self is there, the pure consciousness is there. But there is no body-mind to experience because it's completely folded up. Similarly, for the Self-Realized person, is there an experience of the world? Or is it just happening in a non-doership way and the person is not even aware of the unfolding of phenomena? 

Shri Babaji:

Exactly. The universe does not exist for the yogi because nothing registers as a reality. Though vaguely, the appearance is there due to the physical body, it's only like a vague thing. Like, sometimes I have given an example, if you write on a white paper, instantly it gets disappeared., erased. So, nothing sits into the consciousness of any reality of this world. That's what happens. It's the pure consciousness. It won't absorb anything else. That's why it is also told, “A yogi is only a witness.” He doesn't get involved in consciousness. 

Question:

Babaji, a small question. Actually, we are gaining a lot of knowledge skill, attitude, everything in this birth. Suppose if you go to another birth, if you take another physical body, will there be any carrier of the knowledge? Will it be there in a new physical body? 

Shri Babaji:

Yes, you see, if the mind has absorbed all these skills… because when death happens in this one body, the brain dies. With the brain's death, whatever skills they were in the brain, they all will go away. But the mind, whatever skills it is carrying, as symptoms, based on that only it assumes next incarnation. That is how generally I would like to tell, even if several children are there for parents, they would like to look after all children equally to their capacity. However, different children pick up different intelligence capacity, observation capacity, understanding capacity. It can vary from person to person. They are bringing it from previous lives. That's what we try to call it as ‘a basic nature’ is coming. 

Question:

Oh, okay. Thanks Babaji.

Shri Babaji:

I deeply appreciate, some very wonderful questions came up today, giving me an opportunity to express my opinions and share my experiences.
 
 End of Session