The mind, the brain and its reflections | In Quest of Truth - Q&A with Babaji, No.221

Register your free place for the live online meditation and Q&A with Babaji: https://www.shivarudrabalayogi.org/en/online-satsang 

The mind, the brainand its reflections | In Quest of Truth - Q&A with Babaji, No.220
Recorded on 5 April 2025 with worldwide participants.

0:00 Intro
0:06 The mind has come out of the Self
6:10 Is the mind and the Self the same substance?
12:06 The unique relationship between brain and mind
21:45 The brain needs more than blood and electrical impulses to function
26:10 Does the mind also need a brain to exist as a mind?
29:01 If the brain becomes damaged, does that damage the mind?
31:32 When we become happy, is that simply when the mind becomes more quiet?
33:51 Is the mind being quiet the same as being focussed or concentrated?
45:20 How to get free from bodily identification also doing the waking state?
48:14 Who is at peace if we do not have sense of self?
49:35 When the imagination is stopped, what is there?
50:30 An out-of-body experience
53:42 "just like a crow alights on the tree, a coconut falls - this happens in mere coincidence" quote from Sage Vasistha - with respect to unreality of the world

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Website: http://www.srby.org
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/shivarudrabalayogi
Twitter: https://twitter.com/SRBYmission
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Transcript

The mind, the brain and its reflections | In Quest of Truth - Q&A with Babaji, No.221

Recorded on 5 April 2025 with worldwide participants.
 

Question: 
 
Baba, when I first heard Babaji’s teachings, He was very clear about the Self, the mind, and the brain, and the relationship between them. So, this week we wanted to look at that relationship a bit more. Baba has said that the mind has come out of the Self. Could He speak a bit more about that please? 

 Shri Babaji:
 
Everybody knows they have a mind, but nobody has seen it in naked eyes. Simply based on thoughts and visions, they recognize the mind. But that is where the consciousness of existence is coming. Means, that is the source of the consciousness of your own existence. You always have a feeling that you exist. It's a different matter when you would have identified yourself with the physical body; when that feeling comes, you would think that you are that physical body, as the personality. But keenly if you can observe, with totally focused mind, concentrated, then only you will know that this consciousness of existence is not binded by any part of the body, and it totally seems to be free. You cannot even catch hold of its name, or the matter that it is made up of, or any such thing. But you do feel that that consciousness of existence is there. 

So, that is how I have always told from the beginning, mind is your consciousness energy. Brain is the biological organ in the body. Here, that means you are not any part of the body, not the body at all. You are totally free of the physical body. These things one can experience at a later stage, when one achieves Samadhi. So this observation is possible. So thus, the mind belongs to you as the eternal soul. Mind belongs to the Self. And the brain is the biological organ. So that is how I have tried to explain this one. 

In fact, as you progress in meditation, eventually you will realize, mind is nothing but you. Now, as we start telling, “My mind thinks”, “My mind wants to do this”, “My mind wants to go there”, in other words, you tell, “I want to think”, “I think like this”, “I want to go there”, “I want to do this,” so all these are all done through that source only, that consciousness of existence. That is the most infinite existence. That is why in meditation, it is just taught to concentrate and remain focused using your eyeballs and mind in between eyebrows. The idea is, if you achieve the total ‘just watching’, and do not allow the mind to analyze or make any judgments, don't recognize even, just watch. As many times I have told, showing a microphone, “You watch this,” means “Just watch”. Don't think whether this is the hand or who's hand, nothing. Like that, you watch there. 

Then, after, in due course of time, the mind’s thoughts and visions all will dissolve. They will disappear, evaporated. When this happens, finally you will find this consciousness of existence is there. Because your attention, the mind's attention will go to its own existence. That is what is the consciousness of existence. That you cannot make disappear. No matter you try, one hundred thousand times, it will be there at all times. Whereas, any thought or any other vision, you can make it disappear. If you stop thinking about it, if you stop analyzing about it, then you make it dissolve. Whereas this consciousness of existence, as you concentrate on that, you won't be able to think anything, yet you experience the existence of this consciousness of existence. 

So that is how I have told, either in the beginning you can think mind as your consciousness energy, or mind is eventually you, yourself. When the mind merges with the Self, you will realize it is you. You had become habitual to keep thinking like a chatter box all the time and that's why you were having stress, fear, all sorts of things, unhappiness, cravings, everything was coming. Once through this practice of meditation, you got rid of this and you will experience the peace, Supreme Peace. That means, when you become peaceful, you have peace. If you are not peaceful, if you are into consistent thinking and visualizing, making judgments, you are not peaceful, you don't have peace. That's what one needs to understand. 
 
 

Same Questioner: 

Babaji, the mind and the Self, it's the same substance, just the Self has become excited or distracted? The Self is not somewhere a long way away? 
 
 

Shri Babaji: 

Yes, when we talk of mind, I would like to call it a micro-speck portion of the Self that has come out, like a small droplet coming out of the ocean. This process happens probably because whenever a small micro-speck portion starts thinking, means becomes creative, that is how the creation happens. Like when you imagine, a thought gets created in your mind. That means, you’re imagining means you are creating. Your creativity enabled that thought to be there. So thus, that thought should be considered as impermanent only which has appearance value, not the existence value. It cannot exist at all times. It is not there. 

So, whenever this happens, in illusion it comes out of the Real Self, away, gets scattered, slowly gets scattered. So, life after life, as the mind absorbs thoughts and imprints, when it makes a judgment, that is absorbed as an imprint also by the mind. That’s what sits in the subconscious state as a pattern, attitude of the mind. So this is what I would like to call it, attitude of the mind. That becomes the acquired habit of the mind also. In that way also it is called. So thus, this has come out as a small droplet. 

Now, sadhana is taught in spirituality, meditation is taught so that you can get rid of these thoughts and visions which were mere imaginations of that consciousness, which you call it as mind. When you get rid of these thoughts and visions, that mind regains the purest form of consciousness and goes back to Self. So that Self, just now it will be very difficult to understand, even if I explain. Simply, nearest clue is, that is the combination of Supreme Consciousness and Supreme Energy. Inseparable combination of. Like the mind itself also is the combination of consciousness and energy. Through science they have recognized the energy’s presence, but nobody has seen the energy in naked eyes. Through the elements, or any machinery, through anywhere it operates. When the matter, any such thing is there, through that only you can recognize “This is moving because of the presence of energy there”. A wave is arising in the ocean because the energy is there. 

So, like that only it can be recognized. Otherwise, if you look into the space, it simply appears as inert but no energy appears, no consciousness also appears. So, consciousness people have forgotten, in scientific experiments that they have been doing, because they are trying to go through the matter. Matter cannot catch hold of the consciousness. Here also, only your own mind can catch itself. Means, catch means here, only the mind can experience its existence. In naked eyes you cannot see. But here another amazing thing is, when the mind has imagined, when thoughts and visions have come, that also you can feel in your mind. You get to see within your mind only. 

No other person can see your mind. It is all myths that has been spread in religion or spirituality; one can read the mind, one can see the mind of another person, what is happening. They are all total myths. Scientifically, nobody can see any other person’s, any other mind’s thoughts and visions actually. Simply a mind reading can happen in so many different ways. Like just by watching you, talking to you, one can easily read what is going on in your mind. Might be possible and they might tell a little bit resembling, “Oh this is what you are thinking, this is happening.” And if you agree, you agree, if you don't agree, you don't agree. But actually, nobody can see in naked eyes. Naked eyes nobody can see another's mind. Their own mind also they cannot see in naked eyes. They can see only through the mind. This is an important point. Only the mind can experience the existence of the mind. So that is how the difference between matter and spirit happens. 
 
 

Same Questioner: 

Could Babaji then explain that unique relationship between brain and mind, please? 
 
 

Shri Babaji: 

Through my observations, one thing we all know, you have obtained the consciousness of this world surrounding you, your own physical body, and the world that is surrounding, with the help of the brain only. Means, brain is in touch with the universe through nervous system, sensory organs. So, it receives information, and it passes on the order also. When you try to think, means that is when you apply the brains. Then you convey that message, then the brain reflects. 

So, in this process of ordering and receiving the message, the brain reflects either as a thought process or a visual effect. Either of these two, it would be either a vision there or a thought is there. This thought and vision is caught by the mind again, in turn. And it registers in itself and firmly believes that to be a fundamental reality. Because the brain is reflecting, it catches, and that gets registered in the mind, and that appears to be so real. So that is how the reaction happens. So then the world appears to be so real around us. Our own physical body appears to be so real. Nobody can make out, even if we tell, “This is unreal, this does not exist”. So that is why I have avoided using such terminologies as “This doesn’t exist’”, for ‘illusion’. 

For illusion, temporarily if one can understand, it is impermanent. It keeps losing its shape. It is not in the same shape at all times. It will go away. That’s how in spirituality often, for need of detachment, some masters have used; this physical body, it is so dearer and we have considered ourselves to be this body. But when this dies, it is cremated. All that is going to remain is only a little bit of ash, finally. That is what is going to remain out of this physical body. And you will get to see the bones, and where is the person? The person, nobody knows. That person who was talking through that body, operating through that body, listening through that body, nobody knows after that. After that, hundreds and thousands and millions of myths and myths and myths have been built up, built up. People have published books, they have written stories, near-death experiences, and after-death experiences, so many things. It can all create excitement. But they are all simply imaginations. Just like writing a beautiful novel, imagining a fictionary novel, writing type [thing]. 

Nobody knows the truth of what happens. As Nachiketa says in Katopanishad, “Nobody has come back after death to tell what happens when death happens. So you tell me, my Lord, if you know the truth, now and here itself.” So that is how in that Upanishad Yamadharmaraja goes on talking to him. So, this is what we also observed. When we observe, if I should continue further, little more elaborate this process – when death happens, just now we will call it as ‘the mind’ only, instead of the soul, or self, everything. This mind, which is in touch with the brain, gets detached, or kicked off, because the brain dies when the body dies, that mean. When the brain dies only, medically one is declared “He has passed away, it's over. This is only a dead body now what remains.” 

So that mind, which was holding all desires and imaginations, and all things, cravings, that spins fast – less than a fraction of a moment also it could happen. It's difficult to calculate that time. In mathematics if you go ‘.000000…’ so many things, within that shorter period it spins and produces its next world. It assumes its next incarnation. If there are desires in the mind, if there are imaginations in the mind, it assumes next birth. It assumes the next physical body. Depending on one fine criteria I can tell. If the mind is very violent at that time with desires, greediness or anger, frustration, any such thing, it can belittle itself into a lower birth, going to an animal or any such things, any creature, anywhere, any world. But if the mind is more nonviolent, can be more quietness there such a mind assumes a better elevated birth. 

So imagine, elevated birth means, to be born as a human being to a pious parents who can give you some introduction of spirituality and then your own mind has the basic nature which it is bringing from previous lives because of its sadhana and studies. From a young age itself it will have the inclination. Instead of simply becoming a religious follower, such a mind will become more inquisitive to know the truth. What is it actually? Like Nachiketa wanted to know, “What is this death actually?” When he saw his father getting panicked, he used to see every day his father was discoursing about birth, death and atman, “We are atman, we are not the body,” everything he was telling. But when it came to his own turn to sacrifice his son into the fire, he gets panicked and he starts crying. Then Nachiketa is bewildered as a young boy of 5, 6, 7 years old. Then he wonders; that is how he gets into detachment, “What is this truth? Why is my father really so panicked when practically it came, when he got a chance to sacrifice me? Because I thought he knew the truth. Every day he was talking, “This is the atman, this is going to happen, only the body dies”. But why didn't he realize that moment? What made him to cry? Why he got so attached to the body that I am not? He kissed me, he hugged me, he started crying, but he told that this body is not me, but what happened?”, like that. 

So this can be practiced only in a deeper meditation, and Samadhi state only one can experience. Just by theory, nobody can get into that one. It won't stay in the mind, people will forget. So that is why the meditation is taught, that first you need to get rid of the imaginations that are in the mind as desires, as cravings, as thoughts and visions, everything must go. Then the mind turns introvert, it becomes pure consciousness, then it will be able to… And in the process, if one has the interest to observe, a little bit like this in the brain and minds connections, they can observe. This is what we observed in our tapas, in our deeper meditations. It was very interesting for me to know how the birth really happens. What do you have to do to get rid of the birth? So this is what; if you want to get rid of being reborn, this is all you have to do, clear your mind, make it silent. And the technique is ‘just watch’. If you have desires, if you want to be reborn, it's your choice. Nobody will stop, can stop you in fact. So you can be reborn, anybody. This is for educational purpose I am talking. So it is a person's choice. One would choose it. “We don't want to be reborn, enough is enough for me. This world is enough”, then the Vairagya comes. 

Same Questioner: 
 
Thank you, Baba. Babaji, with the brain, Babaji has said it needs more than just blood or electrical impulses; it needs the mind to activate it. Is that correct? 
 
 

Shri Babaji: 
 
Yeah. Generally I have spoken, like the fuel for the brain to be alive is the blood and oxygen mainly. Little bit that common people like us who know this, who have studied in high schools and all. Above all this, it requires the mind's application also to be active, to get activated. For this, it's like an action-reaction. The brain reflects. Through that, the brain attracts the mind. It's like the fly getting attracted to the light and dies. So, the light makes it to attract. So like this, the brain works out in such a reflective way. It gives beautiful stories, wonderful cinema, production within it, and it attracts the mind. The mind gets sucked into it and gets carried away, firmly believes when it registers in itself whatever the brain is reflecting as a fundamental reality. 

Here I would like to remind, in my teachings I have told, brain can be a very good servant but a bad master. Means, you as the mind should be able to apply the brain in this world and work, live. Then you can be a genius. You can be a matured human being. You can restrain yourself. You can understand surroundings much better. You can understand this world in a much better way. You won't simply get carried away by either emotions or any such things; the six enemies of human mind – you will not become violent in any way. You will be able to use the brain. 

Whenever you need to use, you can use. When you don't need, you keep only a little bit of consciousness in touch with the brain and remain withdrawn from the brain. That is when you have peace. This is what Ramana Maharshi has said, “Even when a Yogi is gossiping a lot, he is the ever silent one.” Like even if I am talking anything, physically I am talking, mechanically I am talking by practice. Spontaneously it is coming also. Once the question is asked, then the flow comes, otherwise I may not be able to imagine at all anything, sometimes. A blockage happens; I don't know why. Because my mind doesn't work anything. So now also, even if I am talking, my mind is quiet and at peace. Nothing reverberates. The brain's reflections doesn't reverberate or register in the mind anymore. So that is what I have told, you write on a white paper, it instantly gets erased. 

So, I get to see this world. I get to see the brain's reflections. But my mind doesn't get carried away. This world is impermanent. It's a vague dream. We also are able to live like a normal person in this world. But very carefully, only to the need. Not getting carried away, that we need to go there, we need to do this, we need to do that one. Even when we are in New York also, I will be happy to remain at home. No need to go to UN buildings. No need to go to the markets, anywhere, nothing is attractive. I have seen that beautiful thing, after seeing which nothing else can be beautiful at all. In the creation, nothing else can be beautiful as that hair-raising beautiful Self. So, you never get attracted mentally. No craving will be there at all. 
 
 

Same Questioner: 
 
So Baba, does the mind also need a brain to exist as a mind?
 
 

Shri Babaji: 

It is. Here, that is the peculiar thing. As long as the brain is reflecting, the mind is there. Based on this observation only, I have told, mind, if it contains the desires, thoughts and visions in it, it cannot remain without a body even for a fraction of a moment. This is the general observation. It won't go anywhere as a soul and it won't remain in that area for so many days, and this happening, that happening and then it assumes birth – there is no such thing. Illusion is beyond the imagination of time and space barrier. Eight days the king had died, but the king had assumed, and when he had assumed the next birth he was more than 40 years old. That is the story of Yoga Vasistha. She is bewildered. 

Just to explain Vasistha, only we have to understand, when it is after all illusion… When you have to imagine in your mind, sitting in Perth, you can travel to London, or you can travel to Mars and Saturn, or any other galaxies or Milky Way. The mind has to go in imagination, that’s all. Nothing really happens. So, like that. So, this happens only in the mind's imagination. When it assumes next birth also, it gets involved in another illusion, terrible illusion, and firmly believes that illusion to be the truth. And thus, from childhood starts growing, a fear, a panic, a stress, anything. It picks up everything. Slowly, slowly, slowly. Throughout the life the stress goes on and on, but it is looking for peace and happiness. That peace is elusive until the mind is silenced. Same thing Buddha also said, “Constant cravings of the mind is the basic reason for all unhappiness.” So, that is what one needs to get rid. Recommended – no force, no imposition. It's a person's, anybody's choice. A Guru simply recommends, appeals, and wants to teach for educational purpose. 
 
 

Same Questioner: 

Thank you, Baba. Babaji, if somehow the brain becomes damaged, does that damage the mind? 
 
 

Shri Babaji: 

It curtails the functioning of the mind properly. That's how one becomes mentally challenged also, if the brain is challenged.  If the brain is lost, then that mind will not be able to operate as a normal human being, understanding or applying wisdom. Everything can get affected, depending on the damage that has happened to the brain. In medical terminologies, fields, so many varieties of brain challenging could be there. They may give you different terminologies. This is our common knowledge, that this happens. If the brain is not totally healthy and alert, then the mind also gets troubled. Its activities get curtailed and it cannot get cleansed also. So that is why the body has to be healthier, and the brain needs to be healthier always. 

And the spiritual exercises are the natural way of controlling the mind where you keep the brain healthier without harming its health. So, you keep it healthier and control the mind so that whenever you need, you can apply the brain. Whenever I need, I can apply the brain. My brain is not damaged. A few years ago some article was sent to me that somebody had written that Ramana Maharishi’s state was like a damaged thing, brain damaged, He was in such an illusion. I refuted, that is not the case. After He completed His tapas… though during tapas, because His mind was totally withdrawn from the brain, He might have appeared like that for people. Even Ramakrishna appeared like that as a mad man. But when He became normal, He could give such wonderful teachings. Ramana Maharishi also gave such wonderful teachings. He was a very normal person. So, His brain was not at all damaged. That is total misunderstanding and stupidness, I had told at that time. 
 
 

Same Questioner: 

Thank you, Baba. Babaji, when we talk about being happy, is that simply that the mind has become a bit more quiet?
 
 

Shri Babaji: 
 
Real happiness means, whenever the mind becomes quiet, even for a moment. That is when… usually in this world, you have a desire, suppose, for example, and you obtain that thing. You become so happy and excited. You are happy. You are thinking that matter, that thing which you obtained has given you happiness. But actually, happiness has come to you because the mind stopped even for a moment, for a fraction, for some time, whatever it is, unknown to you. As long as it stopped, you enjoyed that happiness. 

You keep that matter in your hand which gave you happiness. After some time, if the mind jumps back… The thing is there, it is the same; matter is there. You wanted a bicycle, the bicycle is there. But it becomes trivial and you lose interest in the bicycle because the mind has started jumping again, it goes into desire. You can think and you might even wonder, “Two hours ago, this bicycle gave me so happiness. Why is this bicycle not giving me happiness again?” 

Many times it happens in human relationships also. People fall in love, and they declare so much of passion, love, this, that. After some time, they reach a saturated point and they start losing that happiness, that love, that peace, everything. Because the mind is jumping again more desirously; it goes into more and more desires. It is not satisfied. That is what Ramana Maharshi used to tell, it is lust and greed when it happens like that one. Only through the practice of spirituality, meditation, you can achieve total peace and overcome the lust and greed. 
 
 

Same Questioner: 
 
Thank you, Baba. Babaji, is the mind being described as quiet the same thing as being focused or concentrated?
 
 

Shri Babaji: 
 
When it is totally focused means… another important point is, where is it focused? And when it is focused, is it still thinking, or is it quiet – is also important. Then only it can be quiet. It can be focused, but if 100% when it is focused means it is just watching. Even if you set a target and watch any hand or a matter, any microphone, any object also, if staringly you watch, then finally your mind becomes quiet. That is when you are really focused on it. 
 
 

Same Questioner: 

Thank you, Baba. In the scriptures Baba, there is often very many different terminologies used, like chit, manas, and buddhi, for different functions or different activities within the mind. Could Babaji speak about that? Babaji tends to use the overarching term, ‘mind’ instead. 
 
 

Shri Babaji: 

Yes, I think it is the same; mano, chit, ahankara, when the mind takes different shapes. Ahankara, the same mind, Aham means ‘me’, Akara, ‘my shape’. That is what is Ahankara's meaning. So, when the mind thinks about myself as this human body and as a Shiva Rudra Balayogi, that is the Ahankara. So, it has misidentified itself. Aham means ‘me’ actually, ‘I’. Akara is the shape, my shape. So, like that it starts thinking. When it thinks like that one, it identifies itself with the body. So, then it goes into an ego, then that is the Ahankara. It is the same mind which is imagining. But at that place it is known as Ahankara. We won't simply call it mind. 

Mind is a general word, even in English if we try to understand, general word used when there are thoughts and visions there in which that is known as the mind. That is what Ramana Maharishi used to say, “Mind is a bundle of thoughts.” One perspective, view if you want to see that one. So, the same mind gets into Ahankara. The same mind becomes chitta, applying wisdom or thinking, taking decisions. So, different masters would have used different terminologies. The same mind is able to take a decision by the apply of the brains, by apply of the wisdom. Then the buddhi, like this, different terminologies have been used. I have tried to use less and less terminology to avoid any confusion to the students, so that they stick to one thing, ‘mind’ and silencing the mind. That is the main switch, powerhouse. That is what is important, then everything can be taken care. You can reach the Self easily. 

Same Questioner: 

Baba, in the Western trains of thought, the intellect, that ability to understand things, it seems to be viewed as the pinnacle of all the mind's functions. But it doesn't seem to be that way in India. Could Babaji speak about that please, whether that’s true or not? 
 
 

Shri Babaji: 

Generally, if we try to understand intellectuality, it is all connected to this world. World and its sources and resources, and like so many discoveries, inventions, all such things that happened. Scientific theories have been floated, black matter, black energies, black holes. These are the times. So, that they call because of intelligence application; they could observe, they could understand, they could tell, “This is it”. So, like that the intellectuality happens. But it will always be ending with an imagination. 

What is that black hole? Actually, if one tries to understand, nobody knows. Something, it appeared, then we imagined that as a ‘black’. Then we imagined, gave the name as a ‘black hole’. So, these things are done for sake of communication and understanding in this world. You have been given as Bruce Young. I have been given as the name of Shiva Rudra Balayogi. So, that's how we just recognize each other, or anybody else wants to call Bruce and understand, or call Babaji and understand for sake of communication only. But this is not the final truth. This has happened only due to imagination. So, for this intelligence application, intellectuality, this is the world. 

Whereas in Indian culture, this is also respected. We need the wisdom. That is what is the buddhi – wisdom application to know what is going around you. That is why I have spoken, brain can be a very good servant. You should be able to use the brain. The brain should not be using you. If you are using the brain, you can be a genius and you can be executing, understanding thoroughly everything properly. So, you would understand everything is simply imagination. From that point, it may be very difficult for people to grasp what I am trying to convey. I will repeat again: everything in the world, entirely, whatever terminologies we have used, in whatever term that we recognize an object, it is all imagined terminologies for sake of communication and understanding only. And nobody really knows what this is. We have called this as universe. Then we called it as solar system. We called it as galaxy. We called it as a Milky Way. All these we went on. In every field, these imaginations have been used so that we are able to present it. We are able to communicate. 

So, this is what in spirituality, in Rigvedic era, they were wonder-struck and bewildered, that they called the first word as ‘Tatva’. Tatva's meaning? ‘That’. All of you are very well aware now. ‘That’ means, simply that, and nothing else. Impossible that is, beyond all recognitions and all namings, such a wonderful hair-raising experience. That is what it is. So, the rest, if I show you an apple, you will insist that this is only apple and this cannot be anything else. Because your brain has been fed this as apple. And you have seen everybody else recognizing it as apple. And if I say it as God, your mind will never accept it. Because it has been tuned into, brainwashed into accepting this as apple. That is how this world and galaxy and everything, name. In every field the names have been given. 

So, all this we consider as great intelligent people, intellectual people. But where have we reached through these things? Have we been able to achieve Supreme Peace to humanity? Fundamental important things if we try to calculate. Have we been able to bring down all conflicts and better understanding amongst human beings? Nothing has happened. So, in that field we are still very premature people. We are not at all matured. Our intellectuality is not working. Our intellectuality is working only to stab each other. Anything we discover, we want to grab that; “Is there anything that can make me more powerful, that can make me rich, that can make me wealthy?” Only when we have made sure it is ours, then we might share a little bit with somebody else, that knowledge, that wisdom. But if everybody gets, there will be fight. So, that is what wars go on, happens, happens, works. 

So, these things are happening. These are all never-ending stories, intellectualities. If we try to understand, so much is there. So that is what, finally coming to the point, I have also told, even if a Self-Realized Master like me, if I have to teach, I have to use the nearest possible imagination to teach, to give the clue to the student, what you are supposed to do, what you will get. The final truth nobody can explain, impossible. There is an old dialogue of a movie, “You can understand, but you cannot make others understand”. That is the thing. When you achieve Nirvikalpa Samadhi only, you understand. 

Even in Yoga Vasistha also repeatedly, Vasistha and Rama’s conversation happens, when Rama asks, “All right, I will accept everything is maya, illusion, nothing. But when and how did this happen? Why did this happen at all?” He says, Vasistha, “Just now even if I try to explain your mind will be more confused. When you, yourself, achieve the Nirvikalpa Samadhi, at that time, either you will understand on your own, or at that time if I explain also, then you will be able to understand. Because I have to use some imagined words, imagined language. So finally, Dakshinamurthi’s silence is the teaching. You see, that is the greatest skill of the Great Masters of Rigvedic era who gave the Upanishads. Even when using the imagination, they gave the best language to give the clue. Only selected books are available, which we recommend today as Ashtavakra Samhita or Yoga Vasistha, these type of great Upanishads, wonderful things, which have used the nearest possible imagination to take us to that Truth. That is what it is. 

Same Questioner: 

How to get free from bodily identification, also during the waking state, during body activity. How to kill the brain while the body is still alive and get free from the body, feel free of being stuck within that body?
 
 

Shri Babaji: 

You see, importance is, practically you have to practice remaining quiet. That's what you are trying to do in meditation, what just watching means. Long time practice sitting in one position, closing the eyes, then it can naturally make you… when you are in the waking state also, it won't absorb imprints, it will be well aware of the truth always. Though you might for a while behave normally like a normal human being, your mind will not get carried away. This practice, practical only has to happen. Not by any theory, there is no shortcut methods. And this word of ‘killing’ the brain; it need not be killed. You just keep it in a folder, keep it aside for a while. You make the mind quiet, the mind quiet, quiet, and its thoughts and visions. It has become habitual since time immemorial to catch the brain's reflections and believe firmly and absorb it as imprints. That is what is all sitting as a basic nature in every person, which forms as attitude, patterns in thinking, what we call it as acquired habits of the mind. That needs to be got ridden. You have to get rid of that. That also happens only when you do not think. 

In meditation, you do not think, you just keep watching. While you are active, you simply accept the results as it comes. Don’t go into cravings, “Why this happened? Why not this?” You keep trying whatever you want to achieve. When any result comes, simply accept it. This acceptance can give you quietness in the mind. It will recede and become quiet, like this. 

So, in bhakti marga, if you are fond of any form of the Divine, you try to remember that through a name, or through a mantra even if you are active in the world also. So, like this also you can make your mind single-pointed, hold on to that one, not allow it to become a monkey. So, like these various methods, you can try to keep your mind quiet and in the awareness of the Self. Finally, when you achieve Samadhi, then you will be able to experience the Real Truth. 
 
 

Question: 
 
Namaste Babaji, thank you for talking to me. So, I wanted to ask you, do you have sense of self? If you do not have sense of self, who is at peace? Like, if you are not there, then who is at peace? 
 
 

Shri Babaji: 

You see, sense of self means not with an imagination that “This is me,” but the peace is experienced. That which is in peace is the Self actually. That we experienced. So, but all the time we won't be naming or thinking, “This is it”. When it is quiet, it is automatically settled in the Self only because it cannot settle anywhere else other than the Self when it is quiet. The very fact that it is quiet and in peace, it is in the Self. 
 
 

Same Questioner: 
 
But you said the self merges into something else, right? So, if it merges, there is no self?
 
 

Shri Babaji: 
 
This imagined self merges. When the mind is active, individually imagined self, what you call in Indian culture as a jeevatma, that merges into the Supreme Being. That's what I told. 
 
 

Question: 
 
Baba, I now know when I am imagining and then I stop it, but then there is no mind. I mean, what is beyond? I mean, if I equate mind as imagination and I stop the imagination, then what is there? 
 
 

Shri Babaji: 
 
You see, not always imagining is what is peace, but you have the mind, when you meditate, you will have the mind also. Whenever you need, you can use your mind by imagining and applying the brain. You will be able to imagine, you will be a normal person. When you don't want, you can keep yourself quiet. This is what comes to you when you practice meditation. So, you won't lose the mind. You don't have to worry. Mind is always there. 
 
 

Question: 
 
So this is something I wanted to ask you about for a while, but I've refrained because I know Baba tells us to not get caught up on mystical experiences. But this was an experience, or experiences that really helped to set me out on the spiritual path in my late teens, early twenties. And it started when I was a child and it would happen automatically. But I was so blown away by this that I started to practice it to do it on purpose. At night time, what would happen is I was able to... like the first time I practiced it successfully, I started to hear this light snoring. And I realized that, “Hey, that's you snoring. Your body is asleep”. And then I would try to move and I couldn't move. And then all of a sudden, it was like my consciousness would be detached from the body. I could see myself laying in bed there. I could wander around the house and see other family members asleep. And I practiced this for a while to the point of even starting to do tests. Like I would say, tonight, I will go into this room and find a small detail to see, and then tomorrow when I wake, I will go and see if that detail is there. And to my surprise, it was there. So what was happening in me – I don't really do this practice anymore and I can't really do it anymore – what was happening here for me to be able to detach my consciousness and see myself sleeping in bed, hear myself snoring, but travel?
 
 

Shri Babaji: 
 
Now, one thing, it is good you don't do that one now because you would lose the spiritual truth that is so vital. Self-Realization is much more important. So due to some siddhis, something that happens, this experience might occur. But always masters advise not to get involved with these things. For a while, it might appear exciting. But that will drag you and suck you towards the world, and lose the vital sadhana, probably done in your previous lives. But luckily, good for you that you gave it up and you don't do that one now. So like that, it would have happened. So better not to bother about it anymore because it will be mind-boggling again, difficult to explain also. So, continue with your meditation.
 
 

Same Questioner: 
 
Yes. I think it’s served its purpose…

 Shri Babaji: 
 
Yeah, for a while. For a while to give you a realization toward spirituality.
 
 

Same Questioner: 
 
Yes, but does it also conclude that consciousness is all pervasive, because I was able to be conscious in a separate spot from my body?
 
 

Shri Babaji: 
 
Yeah. Exactly, you are true.
 
 

Question:
 
Babaji, with respect to the topic about mind and brain and the unreality, Sage Vasistha brought this statement, which I want Babaji to explain. He said that “Just like a crow alights from the tree, at the same time coconut falls, this happens in mere coincidence.” Can Babaji explain this with respect to the unreality of the world? 
 
 

Shri Babaji: 
 
Yeah, in other words to tell, nobody has planned or thought that these things has to happen like this. Things are happening as a coincidence. Very often, we connect our minds to this that is happening, and start thinking that we have made it happen. So that's what Vasistha has tried to explain. So, to give up such ideas and become quiet mentally is very important. At the most, you think that a higher consciousness due to which this is happening. For this I have always told, the universe is happening due to God, but not according to God's wishes. That's why I have stopped using the term God, because God means, people start imagining a human type of personality with a weapon and that thing only comes always. So to make them understand the beyond thing, I have used the ‘Divinity’ word more. 

So this is what happens. Even God also has not planned. If He had planned, if He had such wishes, “Let me make him happy, let me make him suffer,” then we could have asked God, “Why you are partial? This is a wrong thing.” It doesn't happen like that. Sun has no partiality. Whichever object goes in front of Sun, the light comes to that object. That's what Vasistha has tried to explain. 
 
 

Same Questioner: 
 
So Babaji, in our day to day, this is more like understanding any imagination which comes in the mind is mere coincidence. Just the way Babaji says, watch, keep watching, not think about it, another way could be it just happened, you don't have to worry about it?
 
 

Shri Babaji: 

Yeah, another important point why the Master teaches this type of topic, so that the mind can give up its puzzles. Unnecessarily, it wants to poke its finger here and there, wants to know this, wants to know that. Then it is mind-boggling. Then it gets sucked into it. Then it loses going towards the Self which is so vital. So, to go towards the Self-Realization, the Master teaches, “This is all it is, and give it up. Don't bother much about it”. Many places, even the Kakabhushundi also tells, “Don't bother about this. This is very mind-boggling. Before death shall take away your physical body, go to the knowers of the truth and get Self-Realized.” That's what the Master always advises in Upanishads also. 
 
 

Same Questioner:
 
Thank you Babaji. 
 
 

Shri Babaji:

Wonderful, these sessions were so nice. Bruce, so wonderful, as always bringing out some beautiful questions to dig out the things out of me, which gave a beautiful opportunity for me to express my opinion.


End of Session