Removing the ego, the Guru's surgery | In Quest of Truth - Q&A with Babaji, No.231

Register your free place for the live online meditation and Q&A with Babaji: https://www.shivarudrabalayogi.org/en/online-satsang 

Removing the ego, the Guru's surgery | In Quest of Truth - Q&A with Babaji, No.231
Recorded on 20 July 2024 with worldwide participants

0:00 Introduction from Babaji
2:00 What is the ego and what role does it play?
2:45 Why does every soul have that ego?
4:43 How can we understand the ego in its right sense?
6:63 How important is it for us to understand the ego and to be able to overcome it?
12:48 Why is it that everyone tries to see the faults of others rather that our own?
17:58 How are we imagining something that is not real?
22:37 Can we try to understand the way that the Guru works on the disciple or is it better to surrender to whatever happens?
27:49 An experience with Babaji when cooking couscous
30:43 How important is it in progress of sadhana to follow the instructions in daily life from the Guru?
38:41 Is the surrender to the Guru a mix of following instructions from the Guru in every situation in daily life and faith in the Guru's teachings?
41:42 Is the level of the surrender we have that determines how deeply the Guru will work on the ego of the disciple?
46:06 How much impact does the food we eat have on our ego?
47:47 I get easily triggered and am unable to control myself and only realise afterwards
50:12 While meditating in the breath or on a word I'm able to meditate for longer but if I observe in between the eyebrows I get a little jerk from the body.
51:55 I can love my family members but how to really love the Guru or God?
55:18 My body and head becomes very heavy in meditation and this produces some anxiety in the mind.
58:48 The feeling of staring into the darkness in meditation
59:50 Is connecting with the master online working or is physical presence a must?
1:00:59 What is better to  remove the ego, meditation or seva - or both?
1:01:47 Can Babaji give an example of arguing with the Guru?
1:03:20 If a person finds a Guru that is not Self Realised but serves that Guru with all their love and devotion, will that still put them on the spiritual path?
1:04:36 While reading a book, my mind is completely quiet, but the minute I sit in meditation, all these random thoughts come up.
1:07:14 Does it affect us spiritually if we always dark clothing like we often do I the west?
1:09:23 Is the soul within us and the witness consciousness one and the same?
1:10:36 Does the soul have attributes like love, knowledge, power etc?
1:11:52 Sometimes during meditation I get distracted out of impatience and restlessness - what is the surgical antidote to this?
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Transcript

Removing the ego, the Guru's surgery | In Quest of Truth - Q&A with Babaji, No.231

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/X3IsDqhfTXk?si=rqzSD3_lxra5FApi
Recorded on 20 July 2024 with worldwide participants

Shri Babaji:   Prostrations at the Lotus Feet of beloved Master with deep love and reverence, and I greet you all with my love and blessings. We'll just start with an invocation to the Master, as tomorrow we are going to celebrate Guru Purnima. This day is dedicated in honour of the Guru, the Master, the one who would have dispelled the darkness of ignorance. That's the Guru. In our Indian culture, Guru's place has been so top and very important. Even like as Kabir Das sang, “It is the Guru who told me about Govinda, God. So let me prostrate to the Guru first.” So that type of culture has been taught to us. 

So, we prostrate to Shivabalayogi Maharaj, our Divine Guru, who took our fingers, helped us to stand on our feet like a mother, and taught us the Ultimate Truth about ourselves, that we are the Atman. As I talk, we are much more beyond the birth and death of the physical body. So that's why if we can silence the mind, then the mind becomes pure consciousness and regains the awareness of the Self. Till then the mind is preoccupied with its imagination. This point is the most important, vital thing to understand, and you practice, your effort should be to silence your mind. Let me have a quick gallery look and then we can go for meditation. 

Question:   The first question will be, what is the ego and what role does it play? 

Shri Babaji:   Yeah. So, in spirituality, every imagination of the mind which keeps you away from your Real Self is to be considered as an ego, which generates ignorance and not wanting to know the truth. Depending on that personality, that which you would have imagined, the mind becomes egoistic. That's what we tell as ego. 

Same Questioner:   The second question, Babaji, what role does it play in every soul? Why every soul has that ego? 

Shri Babaji:   Yeah, you see, first thing, there comes an imagination about yourself or any individual. And that turns out to be an imagined individual self, which is not the true Self. Thus, it becomes an ego. In Sanskrit, the word used is Ahamkara. Aham means, ‘my’. Akar is ‘my form’. If my form, if I am identifying with the body, that is an ego. Then what happens, whenever that imagined self is threatened, becomes insecure, then one is likely to become egoistic more and more. So that is how ego plays a role. So, once you realize your Real Self as the universal Oneness, the amazing Supreme Consciousness, this ego of the ‘I’ will disappear. So that is the reason that this ego plays in giving you a misidentification about yourself, making you to forget about your own Real Self. That's why we try to tell, you are much more beyond the birth and death of the physical body, try to know your Real Self. Then the ego will disappear and you will know the truth. 

Same Questioner:   Thank you, Babaji. So, the next question is how can we understand in the right sense that ego? 

Shri Babaji:   So, ego always gives agonizing moments. Only when you realize your Real Self, once for all a peace descends. That is what the mind, everybody's mind is looking for; that peace and happiness, which it had enjoyed by remaining in the Self. So now, when that peace is not there, that is because of the ego. The peace is lost because of insecure feeling. I have always told in my talks and questions and answers, insecurity is one of the basic reasons for humans or any creature to go into a conflict. Whenever one feels threatened, “If my body is threatened of its existence, of its comforts, of its luxuries, of anything, then I go into conflict.” That is how for any individual it happens. That means that person has misidentified himself or herself as the physical body. That is why this ego plays such a role which will rob you of your Supreme Peace and Happiness. 

Same Questioner:   Thank you, Babaji. So, the next question will be, how important is it for us to understand that ego, to be able to overcome that?

Shri Babaji:   Always, you all know that medically also, when you go to a medical expert, diagnosing is the first important thing. Once the doctor knows what the problem is in the body, then he will know the treatment very well. Until what the problem is known, there will be a confusion, “How should I treat this person, in what way with what medicines, when I don't know what the problem is in the body?” Like that the doctor can remain confused until it is not diagnosed properly. So, that is why in the mind also, we will have insecure feeling, an unknown fear, loss of peace and happiness. Like as a child, I used to think, if the happiness is there, it should be there all twelve months and twenty-four hours. Why the fluctuation? Sometimes we feel excited and happy. Sometimes there is an unknown fear. What is the reason? So, when we don't know the reason, there is always a confusion. Then somebody can exploit us. Somebody can fool us. Somebody can come, “Oh you give me five thousand dollars, I can give you peace.” That person can get carried away, “Oh, let me...” Because in these twenty-four years of traveling around the world, I have come across many people. 

Some people in Australia used to come and tell me, “There is somebody who claims to be a Kalki incarnation in India and with ten thousand Australian dollars, they promised that they can give us Self-Realization. We could not get Self-Realization because we could not afford to give ten thousand dollars.” Imagine, does the Self-Realization, knowledge or peace come with money? You go into any shopping complex and offer any amount of money and ask for peace. Nobody can give you peace. Peace is a thing which you have to achieve within. When your mind becomes peaceful, you have peace. For that you don't have to spend money. You have to work out. 

Constant cravings of your mind is the basic reason which creates ego and makes you to lose peace. So, once you get rid of that one, you will have peace. So that is how diagnosing, knowing the reason is important. Once you know, it is not the money which can buy you peace, it is the sadhana in the mind. You have to get rid of your ego, all imaginations which has given you loss of peace. Once you overcome all such imaginations in the mind and then your attention goes to the Self, then you understand this was what was needed, “I needed to be at peace, then I have peace.” The definition is as simple, diagnosing. If you are peaceful, you have peace. If your mind is peaceful, you have peace. That is what one needs to know. 

Now, then, how to achieve peace in the mind? By making it quiet. Silence is the thing which gives you Supreme Peace. Sometimes certain sound effects like a beautiful melodious music might give you a peace. But that also is considered as a tranquilizer. Because your mind is depending on a certain thing to remain peaceful or to remain focused, single pointed. Whereas the meditation we teach helps you to achieve that peace without any external anchor. You don't depend on any anchor, whether there is any music or not, sound or not, mantra or not, anything is there or not, you can remain at peace, silent. Even if there is sound surrounding, you go into a fish market also, you can have your peace. Still your mind can remain at peace if you practice meditation. You go anywhere; your mind, if it remains quiet. 

So that is how you need to know this ego, how it is creating havoc within your mind. So that is why if you all remember, I have told, Swamiji our Guru said, “The one who can realize their own faults and mistake can always become a great person.” We always spend time finding faults with others. So, we don't get time to know our own. That is the old saying we read in magazines when we were students. “By paying too much attention to others' faults, we die before having had the time to know our own.” So, in meditation, you realize the mistake was yours, that you did not have peace. So that is how you need to know how the ego can create havoc in your mind, and then practice to quieten your mind. That is what the meditation is. 

Same Questioner:   Thank you Babaji. Why is it that everyone tries to see the faults of others, but it is very difficult to see our own? Why is it that we cannot control that? 

Shri Babaji:   That again is ego, that which gives the thought, “I am the only person who is right always, the rest are all at fault”. That ego comes in the mind when you have imagined about yourself, when you don't know. Say for example, you are only a gate watchman in a factory, but you imagine that you are the owner of the factory and you become egoistic. Then you start thinking the rest are all your employees and you are the employer. Whereas you are just one of the employees. That's what you will realize when you meditate; your faults that you had imagined about yourself. Whereas that ‘I’ never existed at all. You imagined about yourself, about an ‘I’ which never existed. That's what has to disappear. You imagined about yourself. And then you try to find fault with others because you are egoistic. You don't want to show that you are the first one who was committing a mistake. 

So those people, that is why surrender and devotion are also taught in spirituality. Because when you realize you are just a droplet and you are not the ocean, even when you merge with the ocean also, you should know that the droplet did not become ocean. Ocean already existed. Simply the droplet joined the mainstream. That is what Self-Realization means. There is no ego- place there. Ego disappears. Because a person realizes, “I did not become God. I did not become one with the Ultimate. I simply became one with the Ultimate Truth.” The Ultimate Truth always existed. Ramakrishna Paramahamsa has said beautifully, “A salt doll wanting to know the depth of the ocean jumped into the ocean and lost its existence. It melted in the ocean. The salt doll was no more there. So only the ocean existed.” 

So that is how we lose ego when we become Self-Realized. There is no more ego. There is no such imagination that I am a Yogi and you are not a Yogi and I am a Guru and you are not the Guru. Such ego doesn't occur to a Guru at all. Such imagination does not come that somebody is prostrating to me and I am receiving a prostration. Everything disappears in the consciousness. So that is how one can lose ego. That is how the ego prevents also one to lose it, when we try to find fault with others always. First we must realize, if anything happens in your life, we were taught by our teachers, try to know where you were wrong. If you have failed in an examination, first try to know where you were wrong. Don't try to find fault with others. Don't try to tell “Why the teacher told me to appear for this examination when I could not do this examination”. Don't try to find fault with the Master. Know that you are at fault. You did not prepare yourself. You were not ready to face the examination. Thus, you failed. So, understand your own fault, then you can overcome that ego. Next time you can prepare thoroughly and appear for the examination, and then you can pass. It was not the Master who was at fault. Our teachers taught us everything. It was we who needed to prepare thoroughly, focus in the preparation. 

So that is how we lose ego, when we understand, then we will progress if we lose ego. If we have ego, we will not progress. We will remain as an ignorant person. But simply we claim, “Oh, in two moments I became Self-Realized. I was sitting on a stone boulder on the top of the hill and I suddenly became Self-Realized.” They would have read in books and they tell that I saw myself everywhere. But they don't know what that ‘myself’ means. They simply claim. So that's how the ego works. That ego needs to be lost, and then only you can realize. Then you must stop finding fault with others. First, know your own fault. 

Same Questioner:   So Babaji is saying that we are imagining something that is not real, an imagination about our own self. So how can we imagine something that is not real, is not there?

Shri Babaji:   It happens, because the consciousness of the soul coming in touch with the illusion. For that I have told, your mind thinks. When it thinks, a thought appears. Watching that thought, mind forgets that this thought is there because of my own imagination. Instead, it considers that thought to be a reality. That's when the ego crops up. The moment a thought appears, we don't want to tell that it was my own fault that I could not control my thoughts. Instead, we try to complain to the Master, “I am unable to control the thoughts. Please, you do something. You take a magical stick and wave it”. That's what I have told. If there is anybody in the world who can wave their hand and give peace to all humanity first, let alone other creatures; we can take care later, that day I will consider it as a miracle. Till then, your own self efforts only can bring that miracle, that you will be able to stop your mind if you put in effort. Not anybody else can stop your mind ever, impossible. That's what Swamiji said, if anybody tells, “I will do it for you”, don't believe that person. If a person tells, “You have to meditate”, believe only such a Guru and meditate, then you can achieve. Swamiji used to tell, “The Jangama Sage appeared from the Shivalingam and He initiated me into tapas. But then I had to do tapas for twelve years and achieve Self-Realization. It did not come easily like a chocolate. And my Guru grinded me, tested me, cut me into pieces for my determination, dedication, and steadfastness. That was when I could win”. 

So, this is what is necessary. So that is how a person gains into ego and a person needs to lose that ego also. It happens automatically. The ‘I’ is the most important thing for everyone. That is also another thing Swamiji used to tell, “There is no such thing called charity also. You will do charity only if you are going to be happy. If you are not going to be happy, you will not do any charity also.” So everything depends on your happiness, individual happiness, “If I am going to be happy, then I will do it.” If you are going to be happy, you will come to a Realized Master. If you are going to be happy, you will try to meditate also, otherwise you will not do it. Anywhere, anything you try to do, that's what Swamiji explained. That is the ego. 

We work out deal with God also. “If God can give me peace, then I will meditate on God.” So, can we meditate on God even if God doesn't give me any peace? Can we develop such love, real love? “No matter whether God slaps me or kisses me. No problem, I will meditate. No problem, whether my Guru cuts me into pieces, or He will love me with all affection and care. Still, I will love my Guru. I don't expect anything from my Guru. I just love for sake of love.” We were taught, you go in quest of knowledge, for sake of knowledge only. Not that we want to earn money, “Let me become a Master, a Guru, and then we can earn a lot of money. Devotees will come.” That should not be the aim. You just become Self-Realized because you want Self-Realization. So, that is how we have to go, giving up egos, not working out deals with the Divinity or the Guru. Just surrender is taught for this thing so that you can lose ego easily. If you surrender simply, you don't mind whether the Master slaps me or He will kiss me on my forehead. Either way is okay, acceptable, no problem. 

Same Questioner:   Thank you Babaji. So, now Babaji said about the surrender, can we understand the means the Guru is working upon the student or the disciple, or is better to surrender totally, whatever happens?

Shri Babaji:   If you surrender, you can understand. Surrender means, you accept. That is important. That is the karma yoga also I have told. In this world, you have a desire itself is not a problem. You work for that. If it happens, you are happy. If it doesn't happen, you are happy. You try again. That's how the destiny is taught. You are destined to undergo. Don't blame anybody else. You are destined. It was your own doing. That's why you had to undergo. See, if you develop such attitude, then you will be able to surrender. You surrender to the Master. You don't know what the Master will work out. See, you surrender to the doctor with total faith. You don't know whether he will give you a sweet pill or a bitter pill. Both will be a medicine. If the doctor decides that your body needs a bitter pill just now, that will work for you, then he can will give you a bitter pill. If you start demanding that, “Don't give me a bitter pill like that, you are really not a good doctor. You should be giving me only sweet pills.” Things doesn't work like that. You have to surrender to the doctor; in the same way you surrender to the Realized Master. 

That's what Shri Krishna told Arjuna, “Before death shall claim thee, go to the knowers of the Truth, surrendering, sitting at their Lotus Feet, seeking their permission…” You need to seek permission, that protocol. You need to have that reverence, then you will be serious. If you take the Master casually, lightly, then you will not do things seriously. That's what Swamiji said. When the instructions are given to meditate, consider that as a command. In army, when the commander gives the command, the soldier is just supposed to do it, not question even. Master will ask, “Do you have any doubts?” “No, sir!” “Then do it!” Like that, Swamiji used to tell, “Jangama Sage appeared. He touched me in between eyebrows. Asked me, ‘Just keep watching there by focusing the attention of mind and sight. Don't repeat anything. Don't imagine anything. Don't open your eyes.’ I did that, and the samadhi came.” Swamiji used to talk, so simple. ‘I did that’, means He surrendered to that. “So, if only every day, I instruct people to sit for meditation,” Swamiji used to tell, “I initiate them, and ask them to do like this, if they listen like a command, they can achieve samadhi, they can become totally quiet and gain Self-Realization.” 

So, that surrender is very important. Then you can lose the ego. Otherwise, the ego stops you. You try to blame the Guru. You try to find some excuse. You try to do this one. You want that the Guru should make you successful only, not a failure at all; it was the Guru's fault why you failed: you try to find fault with the Guru also. See, when the ego is there, the ego can play such havoc. That ego is what the Guru is trying to remove from every student. Until the ego is not removed. In olden days, they wouldn’t even initiate in the Gurukulams by great sages. They used to make them work all type of things. Seva, service. “Go bring firewood from the forest,” “Look after my cows and buffaloes,” “Dust the ashram.” That's what my Guru said, “When you clean the toilets of the ashram, you will understand the essence of Bhagavad Gita.” Swamiji said fifty years ago when I joined the ashram. And we did it. I never thought, “I am a Brahmin. I belong to this caste. I should not be doing. I should be doing…” I never thought. I never had any imagination of myself at all. Only Swamiji was in the mind, my Guru. Just went on doing. That is the surrender. That must happen. Then your mind absorbs the Truth. It learns. It learns, “Oh, this is what the Master said,” “Oh, this is what is the real meaning, in which context He said.” 

Shri Krishna told Arjuna in this context only, “Tyagat, Shanti Anantaram.” You will get peace only after sacrificing. What is it that we have to sacrifice? Ego of the mind, that is all. No need to sacrifice your home. No need to run away anywhere. No need to give up your wealth or health, anything. Just give up the ego in the mind is enough. 

Same Questioner:   Thank you, Babaji. So, now it comes to my mind, once, one experience with Babaji, I tried to cook couscous one day, and Babaji said I need to roast that couscous before cooking. But I never did that before, so I thought maybe it doesn't come good – I did it my own way without roasting. And then later on, You said, “Something is missing in this couscous. Have you roasted it?” And I said, “No. I didn't roast it Babaji.” And Babaji said, “Then you won't be able to achieve Self-Realization.” The following of instruction of the Guru in every situation, how important is this, Babaji? Can Babaji comment on that?

Shri Babaji:   Yeah, very true. You see, this example is very significant. That's where the Guru comes. Guru finds out this small technical mistake is there. If you rectify that, the things will come beautifully. The recipe will be nice. It will be nicely cooked. The same way, people might tell, “I'm meditating for the last forty years and nothing is happening. I'm not getting peace.” Even one monk from another matha had met me one day. He said, “Babaji, for the last forty years I'm meditating and the realization is not coming.” I told, “There is something wrong in the method that you are following. In the effort that you are putting in, in your dedication and disciplined approach, and your patience. All these things are lacking. So, if you understand this, the purpose of meditation is very important. And understanding the technique also is important.” 

The purpose of cooking is that you can have a tasty food. And you need to know the technique. What are all it needs to be? Then if it needs to be roasted, you need to roast. Then it will come perfectly. Otherwise, if you remain egoistic, “No, I don't want to roast. I can do myself. I don't need to ask the Master. What does he know? I will know better,” it will never come. Forty years you go on cooking the couscous. The couscous will never come tasty properly because you fail to roast every day. That's what happens in meditation also. It's a very meaningful example, you see. One might try to laugh at this, but it's a very meaningful thing where the Master tries to teach, “You need to overcome your ego.” Then one day, suddenly, one might realize, “Oh, it was me who was showing all ego, all tantrums, or stubbornness, all this and all that, trying to find fault with the Master. Enough now. I must give up that.” Then meditation becomes smooth, and quickly you are there. 

Same Questioner:   So Babaji, because I see that all these small examples in the day-to-day life what the Guru works with the student – how important is it to follow the instructions of the Guru in every situation, when the time comes, when the ego is going to be really tested, those actions that will make you be able to sustain the sadhana?

Shri Babaji:   One important thing you all need to understand, it is a rarest of rare opportunity to sit with a Self-Realized Master and get a chance, once in a lifetime chance to listen to the Master's teachings. It is not easy. In this advent of online things, modern time, somebody had commented, “I think one day people will miss sitting with a Realized Master.” Otherwise, sometimes people are ready to travel thousands of kilometres, just like you came from Spain all the way. There was no gold or silver that I was going to give you. Just some instructions that you needed, that you wanted to meditate, you wanted to know the Truth. That's why people come from long distance just for ten minutes to sit with the Master and listen to the Master. At that time when the Master talks… Often when people ask questions, they are in such an excitement, they don't have patience to listen to my answer, they keep on talking. I pull them up. Once you have asked the question, now you remain quiet and pay attention to my answer, then you will understand. Otherwise, you will never understand. That is important when I am talking. 

Pay total attention to what I am talking, what the message I am trying to convey. Otherwise, your mind can be running away somewhere into shopping complex. You are just sitting there, everybody is thinking, “Oh, how interestingly this person is sitting.” But you only know that your mind is not there, it has gone somewhere else. That is very important, first thing. You keep your mind also there, apply and pay attention, what the Master is telling. “Then you adopt such methods, Arjuna,” Shri Krishna tells, what the Master teaches. “Adopt such methods to yourself and achieve the Truth to yourself.” Then you have to realize, otherwise you just listen for two minutes and it comes to this ear and comes out of this ear. You haven't learned anything. You remain there itself. Fifteen years, thirty years, forty years can go by just like that. 

That is what is important, when the Master teaches. That is what we paid attention. Because our Guru never gave lectures like this. Hardly He spoke. We would be doing some service to Him and suddenly something would come out of Him. He would utter something when He was in a mood. We were waiting for that. Whereas I saw many people would wait for my Guru to come to that town, and they would rush with their problems and they would never allow Swamiji to talk. Means we have to understand, “What is it that the Guru wants to give me?” Instead, we are always in a rush to convey our problems, our troubles, our this and that, everything. And we don't want to listen to the Master. We just want Master to take a magic stick and finish it. Things doesn't happen. Such people get cheated. They cheat themselves. This is what happens. 

Instead, we used to wait; “What is it that the Master wants to convey?” So, we kept quiet. We had no questions at all. But we were just concentrated on serving Him. Go on just serving whenever the opportunity came. We did not demand anything. Sometimes He used to take us with Him. Sometimes He would just ask, “You just be here. You don't have to come.” No problem, we just waited for the next opportunity until He came. And when He came, all two months or three months that He used to stay, we used to wait for few words in those three months. Not that every day He gave lecture for one hour, it was not like that. Just one sentence He would tell. That penetrated, because we paid attention, waiting for that. Even today it rings in my ears. The things that He said. My Guru said, “You can lose anything but do not ever lose faith. If you lose faith, no God can help you,” He said. Such things are all sitting. We cannot forget. We do not have to remind ourselves, naturally it is there because they penetrated the inner layers of the mind. And we worked on that always, faith. We never gave up faith. Come what may be, no problem. It’s okay. My Master is [doing] something. Even today after He has dropped His body, not that always whatever I have wished has happened. Sometimes there are boys to look after me, sometimes there is nobody to look after me. We are happy at all situations. Master is working out something. He closes one door, He opens another door. He is teaching me something. He is teaching me to be independent. He is still training me at the age of seventy. No problem. Let me get trained. 

So, like that all the time we remain surrendered and love the Guru. Then you can lose your ego and learn things. This is what is important. This is what we can see lacking in present day students very often. That is what a master demands, like Ashtavakra demanded, “Janaka, you come down the throne. You are no more the king. You give me the kingdom.” Because that was preventing him from learning. He had that ego, “I am the king, and you are suppose to teach me.” One devotee’s son of Swamiji, he had called me. I was busy somewhere and I couldn't pick up. So, one of my assistants told, “Babaji is busy. He cannot take the call now.” He was angry, “How come he won't pick up the phone? He will have to pick up. I am a devotee of his Guru Shivabalayogi.” That man was so egoistic. He didn't have that humility, “Please, if Babaji has a time, if it is possible. Otherwise, I will wait. Otherwise, I will come back again.” That humility was not there. The result? Their faith always had shaken and broken into pieces. They never had faith and things never worked for them. “So, if you have faith,” Swamiji said, “even the Guru will have to bless you.” That means if you have faith, automatically the blessings will come to you. It is known as the automatic divine activity. If you go in front of the sun, if there are no clouds of illusion, automatically you will get the light. So, these are all very important points in a guru-disciple relationship. It's necessary. Then you can lose the ego. Till then the ego will play the dance. 

Same Questioner:   So, Babaji, you can say that, that surrender is a mix of following the instructions of the Guru in every situation, in anything, and also the surrender of faith towards the Guru, and the attention towards the teachings? That all mixed can be the surrender, or what Babaji will say about that?

Shri Babaji:   Exactly. Yes. That's what we have been talking all this time, following the teachings. When the teachings are taken, you need to have faith. This faith is not a blind belief. It is self-confidence. Afterwards, you will know that is the truth. Just like I always tell, when you went to school first time as a child, when the teacher said, “This is A, this is B.” You took it in good faith. You did not question the teacher, “Why I should write this as A, why I should write this as B.” But you took it in good faith. Then after you grew up, you learned “Indeed that is A and that is B”. So that is the faith. You have to take it. And then you practice it. Then you will get to see the same thing. 

You practice meditation. You just follow the instruction. When the thoughts and visions come, do not try to analyze or get involved. Good or bad, right or wrong, you just don't call it in the mind good or bad. You just watch. I have told, if I ask you to watch my hand, don't think who's hand is this, whether it is hand or what it is. But instead, just watch this. Then your mind becomes quiet, and all thoughts will disappear. Then peace will descend. Then your attention turns to itself. Slowly the awareness of the Self comes. You will realize that wonder, that Consciousness of Existence, you'll be able to catch. Until then, your mind is paying attention to its thoughts. So, it has no time to look into the gap. You enter the hall or you are busy watching the pillar, fans, screen, this and that. You don't have time to watch the space. That which is so peacefully standing, quiet. 

So that is how you understand. You learn. You realize. That is what is needed with the Master. That is the Bhakti, Bhakti Marga. That is what Bhakti Marga means. Not just taking a camphor and doing aarathi, “I am a devotee of God and I have done things.” It doesn't work. Many people came, “I am a devotee of Shivabalayogi.” They wanted VIP treatment. They wanted to be recognized as a very important personality. “We are devotees of Swamiji, champions.” They all disappeared. Where have they gone? They’re all confused. I saw them. 

Same Questioner:   Thank you, Babaji. The last question will be, is it the level of the surrender that we have, that will determine how deep the Guru will work in the ego of the disciple or the student? 

Shri Babaji:   Yes, I have told, you have to authorize the Guru so that the Guru can work surgery on you. Means, many people tell, “Baba, you can scold me. You can beat me. You can do anything.” But even in my Guru's life, I saw, people remained so close to him for thirty years, forty years as a VIP devotee, and they came so close to him, they served, they considered themselves as a champion devotee. But one time He scolded in front of everyone, it was a big humiliation for them and they never came back. Such a thing happened thousands of times to us. He used to humiliate and scold in front of everyone, ask me to “Just get out, don't show me your face, idiot. Get out of my room, don't come here.” I just used to obey His order, come out of the room, go one round, do a little bit of work, again come back after five minutes to His room. He also would have forgotten that He instructed me not to show my face. He would give me some sweets and He would ask me to do some other work. I would have forgotten, He would have forgotten. 

Because He was a great Realized Master, nothing remained in His mind ever. He used to tell, “Even if I scold or slap you, I am doing you a beneficial work to you, surgery on you. Even if I slap, it will benefit the person. A Yogi can never do any harm to anybody because Yogi’s mind is the purest consciousness form. It can never entertain any hatred or dislike. Even if a student abused me and gone away, if I scold that student, I am removing the karma of that student. So, let him leave peacefully anywhere. He abused me, no problem, but this is his fault. Then his account gets cleared, otherwise he can get into that trouble for fifty-five thousand life-cycles.” Swamiji said this, not me. My Guru always used to talk, that is why this fifty-five thousand life-cycles is there. I do not know why He spoke of fifty-five thousand life-cycles. He said, “You have to undergo all the things.” 

So, that is how; you surrender and the Master works on you. Remember, have this faith. Even if He has scolded you, He has humiliated, not simply scolding. Humiliation is another important factor. Hardly any human can take it. If it happens in front of hundred people, fifty people, thousand people. If He humiliates, taking that is not an easy thing. Others would run away when He used to scold us. It used to be so loud a voice and all such language that He used to use. You cannot imagine. But He used to also tell, “Take my scoldings. If I beat you, then the world cannot raise its finger to find your faults. I will make you perfect.” That also He told, the Master. Today, when the world honours us, we are grateful to that Great Master. We surrender even today at His Lotus Feet and consider whatever honour we have, it is His grace, His blessings. Today, people are ready to listen to my answers. So many people sitting in this zoom class. So many people travel from long distance, want to come and spend ten minutes with us. It is His grace. That's what we call that, “my Master's Grace.” 

Same Questioner:   Thank you, Babaji. So, for me, all the questions are done. So, thank you for this session. 

Shri Babaji:   So wonderful questions you asked. It was all very meaningful, giving me an opportunity to share my experience and what I learned from my Guru. 

Question:   Pranams, Babaji. I have a question, how much impact in the process of removing ego is the food we eat, how important is the role it plays? I want to understand.

Shri Babaji:   You see, when we eat food, it has to become blood, and that blood gets supplied to brain along with oxygen. Depending on the quality of the blood, the brain's reflections also will be there. Either sattvic or tamasic or very dull, like that. It is very difficult to discriminate the food's list. But generally, what you can learn is, try to take light food at a time so that you can easily digest. Wind should not form in the body and indigestion, these things can be troublesome. If it's okay, then your meditation also progresses smoothly and the ego can be removed very easily. If you take this formula it is good enough. Take healthy food, vegetable food, like that only we can recommend. But generally, my Master did not recommend a particular food for outside the ashram people, because all over the world different cultures, different weather conditions. But however, if you follow this, take a lighter meal at the time and try to digest it properly, proper work and keep yourself busy, then it will be very helpful to you. 

Same questioner:   Okay. So Babaji, nowadays I'm observing how my ego is getting triggered. And later on I'm feeling bad about why I would have got triggered. If I had accepted the situation, I would have been calm. But every time the trigger is coming; once I am triggered then only I'm realizing I could have been calm, why I could have been triggered. And the surroundings; my family members call, “What is the use your meditating?” And I'm not able to control that trigger. It always I'm realizing once it happened. 

Shri Babaji:   Yeah, I understand. This is a very difficult thing, not easy. Only strong, long-time meditation only can help you to restrain yourself.  At such time, you just need to restrain yourself, control yourself, so that you try to find the reason. Sometimes we were taught, when you get into an angry mood, don't try to react, don't open your mouth. Sit in a corner. Try to remember the Divine’s name for two minutes. Try to chant some number, something, that can keep your mind busy. Within that, one or two minutes, that anger comes down, cools down your mind. Very often that we see, when you are annoyed, it is just for a short while, and you act upon, you’re likely to commit mistakes. You try to follow these methods; instead of acting, sit down. Even if you are annoyed, you leave that place and try to sit alone somewhere quietly for some time, then you will find yourself restrained and you will find peace. Then you come and try to reason it out. Whether it is necessary to show annoyance. But annoyance may be needed some places to defend yourself. But you need to be under your control. You should know how to withdraw quickly after a little bit. Like that, you can practice. When you practice more and more meditation, it will come one day. Don't worry. 

Same Questioner:   Okay. Also, Babaji, another question is, while meditating, if I observe the breath or if I repeat any word, I am able to meditate for longer. But if I just observe in between my eyebrows, what I am feeling is the thoughts are coming. I am just observing or I am just listening to what is happening. At some point, I feel like maybe the body is like if you give a jerk or if you give a shock; how the body will react. The little jerk is happening. If I watch in between the eyebrows, I feel like suddenly when I am forgetting about the body, that time the body is giving some jerk. Is that a reason or how I can control the jerk? 

Shri Babaji:   In due course of time, with practice only, you will be able to control. For some time occasionally, if the mind becomes restless, you can take a long inhale and exhale, and watching that breath can bring down the restlessness also, and chanting some Divine name, something that is appealing to you is not a wrong thing, but not for long time. Try to return to the silent watching as soon as possible and practice that. After once you gain the upper hand, just to watch, your mind picks up just to watch. Then you will be able to restrain yourself and you will have the peace. It will come one day. Give some time. Have the patience. That's why we teach dedication, discipline and patience are the mantras that you need to learn. 

Same Questioner:   And Babaji, I have a question about love and surrender. I can love my mom, I can love my daughter, or my husband. This is what the love means to me, like I can see them, I can share the feelings with them. But to the Guru or a God, I didn’t interact. I had a doubt if I really love them. Is this what is the surrender? And I have a question. In your previous answers, you also mentioned like, “My Guru asked me to clean the bathroom, instead of being a Brahmin or what, I didn't think; I did it.” You said, “Have you got that thing for your Guru?” I couldn't understand how I can develop that. 

Shri Babaji:   Ah, for me, it naturally came because since childhood we had read about the Gurus. Means, what is a Guru disciple relationship. Means, I was waiting. I used to pray to God, “Give me a Guru who would have Realized himself and who can lead me to Realization.” So, when I just saw Him, it was love at sight for me. I just fell in love with Him. Afterwards, I never looked back. That love for a while, it was like a sattvic ego. I loved for sake of love. Even if my Master scolded and tried to make me not to love, we became more stubborn, “Now you have scolded me, I am going to love you more.” So, we never analyzed anything, what the Guru did. Never questioned anything, “Why I should be?” Whether He asked me to look after some school children of some devotees and be a local guardian, or wash the ashram's utensils, or do any other type of service, my mind never questioned why I should be doing. “Simply my Guru has asked and I have to do this. That is all.” Like that I had fallen in love. It's an inexplicable thing. Very difficult to explain. However, if you want to cultivate, if you understand this aspect, when you really love, you will overlook everything. Just like you love your child. Even if your child does a lot of mistakes, you will overlook and you will continue loving your child. You will not give up that love to it. Even if you have a small fight with the child, but you will love ultimately. That's what the love means. With the Guru also, you can argue with the Guru, but ultimately, you will not give up loving your Guru. You will not simply run away from the Guru. 

Same Questioner:   Okay. So, even if my mom scolded or if I fight with my mom, it doesn't mean the relationship is over. There will be some misunderstanding but I'm there for her and she’s there for me.

Shri Babaji:   Exactly. That relation will not be lost. Exactly, it should be the same with the Guru also. 

Same Questioner:   Okay. Got it, Babaji. Thank you. That's all my questions. Thank you so much Babaji.

Question:   This is more on the technique of the meditation. I understand you tell to focus in between the eyebrows. But what are the common hindrances that can come? Because each one will have their own experiences in those barriers. So, for me, the body becomes very heavy. My head becomes very heavy. Although I know I have forgotten about the body, but the whole experience is kind of a heaviness. And then that heaviness brings kind of an anxiety. And I tend to open my eyes because of that anxiety. So, can you please throw some light on what are the common things that can come and how to overcome those barriers in order to keep that focus? 

Shri Babaji:   So, this thing, one of the basic reasons could be, you could be in a rush to control the mind and bring it to in between eyebrows. Because eyeballs doesn't come into one direction easily. It moves parallelly. Steadily, gently. That's why I tell in the beginning also, keeping your back and neck straight, gently close your eyes. Because mind is the most infinite, which you cannot catch with some other anchor. You cannot tie it with a rope. It is the most infinite thing. You need to have patience. That patience will help you to concentrate. Even if you are unable to bring the eyeballs into the middle of the eyebrows, just watch the front portion slowly, and take a long inhale and exhale. Then that lightness will come, that heaviness will come down. 

Other basic problem will of course the mind itself having a bundle of thoughts; thoughts and visions are there since time immemorial. Maybe so many lives have passed, the mind absorbing imprints. They are known as the acquired habits of the mind, tendencies that are picked up. When they come, exercise patience again. Just watch them. There is a thin edge of difference between a thought appearing, and the mind trying to analyze that, “Why is this thought here? This is bad. This is wrong. Why not something else?” Like that you are likely to get carried away and the mind runs with spinning and creating more thoughts. One thought disappears and another thought is absorbed. But instead of that, you exercise some willpower, with all the patience. Just watch the thoughts. Even if it is bad, or right, or good, anything, you just watch. It's like a robberer is running away. You are forced to watch. But don't bother the robberer. He will automatically disappear. He is already punished to disappear. Like that, the thought is already punished to disappear. If you hold on, it will remain there. If you hold on to the thought with some analyzation or some judgment – do not do that one. And exercise a willpower. Have patience is very important. Slowly. Slowly, slowly, skilfully you have to catch your mind. Then it will come down one day. 

Same Questioner:   Another thing is, because once we close the eyes, mind’s eye will see a dark, or sometimes it could be colorful, or something like that. So, there’s no one point; say for example there is a dot, so you can focus on that dot. But in reality, when you close your eyes, we don't see anything at all. It's just darkness. It's like staring into the darkness. 

Shri Babaji:   Anything happens. Anything happens, whether a colour, darkness, or thought, or a vision, anything, at that time just watch that. Anything that comes. You don't try to remove or bring in anything else. It will automatically go away on its own if you just watch. Your job is just to watch. If it is darkness, job is just to watch. If any light comes, your job is just to watch. That you take care and then it will all go away. 

Same Questioner:   Thank you, Babaji. 

Question:   Is connecting with the Master online like we have here also working, or physical presence is a must? Because some seekers do not have the possibility to travel to the Master personally due to health, or finances, or some other karmic issues. So, does online connection also work? 

Shri Babaji:   Yeah, definitely. Technological advancement has helped us. You are able to see me live, even though this is online, not in the front. So, coming in front is not a must. It's just like a bonus if you get a chance. Otherwise also, it is your mind's faith that you take it seriously, that the Master is sitting in front of you, even though if it is online. So, it will work for you. So, when I instruct you to meditate, consider that as an initiation. So that will work for you. It is your faith which really matters. So, know that one and then think that the Master is with you always. You will find him within you also. 

Question:   Thank you, Babaji. What is the better method for removing one's ego between meditation versus seva, or both? 

Shri Babaji:   Both. Both can be helpful depending on your attitude and the chance that you get, whatever way that is possible for you. Even if you help somebody while away in the world also that you can consider, “Let this service reach the Lotus Feet of my Master,” that also can work. It is your mental attitude which matters actually. Whatever work you do, consider that, “Let this as a service to my Master, let it reach Him.” Then it will reach him actually. And your consciousness will be benefited. 

Question:   Thank you, Babaji. Can Baba give an example of arguing with the Guru. What is the context? 

Shri Babaji:   See, arguing with the Guru means, you don't accept what the Master is teaching. You don't pay attention when the Master is teaching. Instead of that, you try to put your own logic. It is like throwing tantrums. Master is telling, “If you do like this, you can achieve.” But you tell, “No, I am unable to do it. You know that I cannot do it. Why do you want me to do this?” Like that, you are arguing unnecessarily. Instead, you pay attention, the Master says and you do it, then you will get the results. Just like the doctor says, “You take this medicine and take care about the food also, don't eat this, don't eat that one. Then if you sincerely do that, your illness will be cured.” In the same way with the Master also. That's what argumentative nature means. Master is telling something, but you try to tell the Master something else. It is as if almost you try to teach the Master also how He should behave with you. So, these are all the arguments. Argument, that's what Ramakrishna Paramahansa said, “A person with argumentative nature can never learn from a Master.” 

Same Questioner:   Thank you, Baba. 

Question:   Thank you Babaji for being my Guru. Thank you so much. So I wanted to ask Baba, if a person finds a guru who is not Self-Realized, a guru who teaches some wrong things, maybe takes money from them, but these people serve that guru with all love and devotion, would their own love and devotion go some way to putting them on the spiritual path? Would that help?

Shri Babaji:   Definitely, if they are sincere that they want the spiritual Truth, Divinity only, then even for a while if the guru is not a Self-Realized, that faith can work for them wonders. This is one thing. But if they are not sincere, they want to buy something by paying money to the master, then they are cheating themselves. If you are sincere – that's what my Guru said – if you are sincere, no guru can cheat you at all. You need to have faith. Then very soon God will guide you to the right master and it will be taken care. 

Same Questioner:   Thank you, Babaji. 

Question:   Hello, Babaji. So, when I am reading a book or even playing a game on the computer, I watch that my mind is completely quiet. And even when I am reading a book, there is not a thought. But the minute I sit in meditation, all these random thoughts, they are mostly of the past and of the future, they come up and I keep watching what my next thought would be and I am taken away. And I just want to ask why the pull of the thought is more stronger than the pull of the Self?

Shri Babaji:   You see, while reading a book, it is like a tranquilizer. Temporarily the mind might appear to be quiet. But when you sit for meditation, that removes the chronic disease of the mind. It stirs and brings up all the thoughts and visions, then it evaporates. During that process, you need to have patience and just watch, then they will all disappear. While you are watching, you just watch. Don't give rise to any further thought, what the next thought will be. When it comes automatically, you will know. And even you don't have to know what the thought is. Simply, you have to watch. You don't have to bother why this thought is there, what this thought is there, how this thought is there. All this inquisitiveness, curiosity must be overcome. Just keep quiet and watch. Then it will all dissolve and disappear. This is important. So, then it will be alright. So, once for all, the disease will be cured, the mind will lose its habit of holding these thoughts and visions in the subconscious state as an acquired habit, it will totally be purified. Just wait with all the patience. One day, total purification will happen. Before that, you don't abruptly rush or don't try to become anxious with the next thought. Have patience. It will be alright. 

Shri Babaji:   Do you still have one more question? Yeah, please go ahead. 

Same Questioner:   It's a very strange question, Babaji. We work in an office here in Australia and it is quite normal to wear dark clothes in Western countries. We all wear suits and everything is black. I know I'm working on the mind and I'm not the body, but does it matter if you are always wearing dark, black clothes? 

Shri Babaji:   Not necessarily, as long as it doesn't affect your mind in any way. Cultural difference, that is all. Like in our culture, we consider white as peace. That's why often it can be recommended. But if there's any other cloth, it's alright. No problem. 

Question:   Babaji, pranams. 

Shri Babaji:   Yeah, blessings.

Same Questioner:   Babaji a few days back I email you and I shared my experience with you. You answered me that it was a glimpse of divinity. What does that glimpse of divinity mean? 

Shri Babaji:   Sometimes when you had that vision or the peace descending on the mind, ‘glimpse’ means that is for a moment. So, if you do more sadhana, that will remain in that state for long time and forever. Just like, you see, after doing long hours of meditation for twenty years and the five-year tapas, now my mind has totally stopped. At all times I'm aware of that Truth, it is visible for me. In that way, you also will be able to achieve. That's what a ‘glimpse’ means. What you wrote as an experience is only for a short while. It came and went away. So, if you continue sadhana, it will come back. You must do sadhana until it permanently stays there for you in your consciousness all the time. It will come one day. 

Same Questioner:   Thank you, Babaji.

Question:   Babaji, there is a soul within us. There is also this witness consciousness or experience, which is there from birth till death. Whether these two are the same; witness consciousness and the soul, they are one and the same?

Shri Babaji:   You see, soul is mentioned for the truth, actual truth. From that, a small portion like a droplet has come out, which is the witness. Witnesses this world, imagines, and undergoes all experiences. Because of that, it undergoes an illusion also, as if it is born and it is going to die. Now the meditation is taught so that you can overcome that illusion of all the witnessed things, everything disappears. Then this mind becomes one with the soul. It merges with the soul. That is what is known as Self-Realization, to give you a small clue. So, for that purpose only meditation is taught. 

Same Questioner:   And for soul, you know, it is said there are attributes like love, bliss, knowledge, power, peace, purity, and truth. Is it so? 

Shri Babaji:   Nay, it is all for the mind, actually. So, what I am trying to tell, sometimes different gurus would have used ultimate truth, the supreme soul, and the small soul. So, it all can be confusing. I am just taking mind and the soul. Soul is the truth. Soul is supremely peaceful and exists in itself, all pervaded. It is the mind which undergoes all these attributes and experiences, egos, good and bad, happiness, unhappiness, everything that you are mentioning. 

Same Questioner:   Ultimately soul has no role to play. Neither the experiencer has no role to play. They are there. Is it so? 

Shri Babaji:   Yeah, soul is in supreme peace. Simply the mind has to go back to the soul. That is what is needed. Then you will experience the supreme peace. 

Same Questioner:   Blessed Babaji, thank you, Babaji.

Question:   Namaskar, Babaji. So, my question is, sometimes during my attempts at practicing my daily one hour of meditation, I interrupt the session often. Like I feel distracted and I quickly check my phone’s timer during the session to see how much time I have left out of impatience and restlessness. And then I feel frustrated because I do this. What's your surgical antidote for this? 

Shri Babaji:   So that is the practice that is needed regularly. Exercise patience. Try not to open the eyes. If at all it happens, take a long inhale and exhale and continue for some more time. Slowly you will be able to do it for one hour. It is simply the practice. It will be alright. 

Same Questioner:   Thanks, Babaji. 

Shri Babaji:   Wonderful. Nice. Thanks for giving me an opportunity to share my experiences.

End of Session