Science and Spirituality | In Quest of Truth - Babaji Q&A, No. 239

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Science and Spirituality | In Quest of Truth - Babaji Q&A, No. 239
Recorded on 26 July 2025 with worldwide participants

0:00 Intro
0:09 Is science and spirituality compatible with each other or conflicting with each other?
1:04 Science is based on evidence - is there evidence of God or Divinity?
9:27 Is God or Divinity logical?
11:09 Science denies the possibilities of miracles, is science wrong about this?
15:55 How do we explain miraculous experiences like brava samadhi to a scientific person?
17:43 In science there is no concept of faith - does that mean that within the scientific method you cannot go on the spiritual path?
20:41 How do we reconcile the theory of evolution, that creatures evolve from lower to higher beings, to the theory in spirituality that higher beings are created first and descend to lower beings?
27:54 Many animals existed in earth's history long before human beings - does that mean god created those animals before human beings?
32:48 Is consciousness possible to create in a computer or a laboratory?
44:39 So finally, Science alone cannot solve the fundamental questions, we need spirituality?
49:03 How is it possible to yearn for silence and spirituality when so much of the world is so fascinating?
50:00 Will science have to focus on the mind to find the truth?
52:27 If we are always focused on the efforts we are putting in, does that not boost our ego?  Should we not be humble and say that the grace of god is what really gives the results?
54:24 How do we protect the god within us?
55:16 Why does my body drift forward during meditation?

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Transcript

Discourse: In Quest of Truth – online Q&A no.239
 Science and Spirituality
You tube Link: https://youtu.be/ffb-WT9XbQI
Recorded: 26 July 2025

Start of Questions and Answers

Question:   Is science and spirituality compatible with each other or conflicting with each other? 

Babaji Maharaj:   It is compatible with each other, definitely – if we go for the root cause.  Spirituality also, there is a systematic approach and then you are taken to the root cause, which is inexplicable though, crossing the time and space barriers.  In science also, if one wants to go, they have to cross the time and space barrier and go for that, instead of looking into matter all the time.  A thing that would be beyond the matter, if they go for that root cause, then it should be possible.  

Question:   Thank You, Babaji.  Science is based on evidence or proof.  All the science methods, they always have clear evidence and proofs.  Is there evidence or proof of God or Divinity? 

Babaji Maharaj:   You see, what the thing is recognized as Divinity is only a single Self that exists, as there is no relative existence for that.  It is impossible to prove in a duality.  Like for example, it's impossible to measure the space and prove how long it is, how wide it is, all such things; not possible.  If you want to measure the space, you have to become the space itself.  Only the space can measure the space.  When you become space and there is nothing to measure, you become one with it.  So, this is how the Divine is experienced.  

And just to be precise, you have the mind.  Everybody recognizes the thoughts and visions that are in the mind.  But hardly anybody would bother what the mind itself is.  Suppose one day, through the practice of meditation, you are able to get rid of all thoughts and visions; what remains is the pure consciousness of existence.  And that is infinite form.  You cannot show it to anybody.  Like, you can talk about the thoughts and visions that are in your mind.  But you cannot show your mind, what is its shape, what is its color, how does it exist.  Nobody has seen it in naked eyes.  Yet there is a mind.  This is possible to experience, because mind is made up of consciousness and energy.  

Now also, you see, when I am talking, if you apply your mind on to me, then you will become aware of what I am trying to convey.  Otherwise, your mind can run away anywhere else, and you might be physically sitting there.  So, that means that mind has the capacity to get applied and become aware of.  So now, to make it aware of itself, you need to remove that mind from its attention to its imaginations, which are in the form of thoughts and visions.  Through the practice when you just watch and do not go analyzing and judging the thoughts and visions, then all thoughts and visions disappear, and one day you will find an infinite form.  But only clue is that consciousness of existence will be there.  

Now also I tell, for further understanding, amongst the millions of thoughts that you have in your mind, one is not a thought or not an imagined substance, which is a reality, is the consciousness of existence, of your own existence.  You always have the feeling that you exist.  But just now, because of your preoccupation with your imagination, you are unable to locate from where it is coming.  Some people, you might recognize yourself as the body or the mind.  But exactly, nobody knows where the location, the location of the mind also nobody knows.  You can look at the brain and study the brain, but nobody knows the mind.  People may even refuse to recognize, some people, as they are unable to see, but they have a mind.  This much they can understand and recognize.  

So now, if the mind which is infinite is like a micro speck or a small droplet, its Ultimate Truth, its origin, the ocean – ocean is an example, symbolically we are telling for sake of understanding; its Ultimate Truth are the right words perhaps – is what is recognized as the Supreme Consciousness of existence and Divinity.  Because, simply try to understand, whatever your mind has created, it is all in your mind only.  And for that, things that have been created in your mind, by the mind, mind is like a Divine.  Any time mind can withdraw that which it has created, and it can change the course of the story that is playing in your mind.  You can do anything with that one.  

So, these are some of the examples I am trying to give, a clue.  So, if anybody can go through this, they can realize what Divinity means, Divine is.  That which is in my opinion, what we learned from our Gurus in Gayatri Mantra, one of the most ancient mantras composed by Sage Vishvamithra who was a great Self-Realized soul.  In that He says, “Bhur bhuvah svaha” – “It is spread in all the worlds, above this earth, below this earth and on this earth.”  Ancient times they called the Ultimate Truth, Divinity as ‘Tattva’, means simply ‘That’; that was such an awesome experience.  Just like I keep telling, you can call the room is void with space or the room is filled with space; depending on your attitude it will appear to you.  Zero as the absolute, absolute as the zero.  Both have no beginning and no end.  

So, that is how it is recognized.  And when this is experienced, that says, this is Divine in nature because if your mind can adopt the remembrance or meditation of that truth in your mind, then your mind becomes quiet and merges with that Self, Ultimate Truth, achieving Supreme Peace.  It can wash away all your unhappiness and sins.  One needs to understand what sins means here.  Sin is not the sin that we have adopted in this world.  It is always one set of justice for me, another set of justice to others.  But here, sin means any imagination in the mind which has kept the mind away from its true Self, in the forgetfulness.  So, that is to be considered a sin, means a grave mistake by which you put yourself into an ugly situation when you forget about yourself, you become so miserable which is not necessary.  

So, like this, somehow the basic points to understand the Divinity we tell, as your question was asked, “Does Divine exist or not.”  It is there.  But which way you have to experience; a Guru can guide and become a torch bearer, inspire, “This is how you have to go.  First you need to rectify where you are engaged to.  You are preoccupied somewhere else.  You remove that preoccupation, then your attention will go, then catch hold of this consciousness of existence.  Then that will get absorbed into that and the truth will be experienced.” 

Question:   Thank You Babaji.  Is the scientific method is based on logic and reason.  Is God or Divinity logical? 

Babaji Maharaj:   It is beyond logic.  As I told, it is not a single personality sitting anywhere in the space.  If that was the case, then it could have been proven and tried to reach that or requested God to come and prove Himself that He exists.  Divinity is not like that.  Just like I was explaining, the form of the mind, how infinite it is, nobody has seen it in naked eyes.  You cannot explain; only through some points – it has to be an individual experience.  A guru guides, “This is how you can experience this truth in yourself.”  And when you reach the Ultimate Truth, then you will be able to experience this truth of Divinity also, will be possible.  So, then you will experience.  But it cannot be experienced through logic.  Because as I told, there is no relative existence.  You can prove through a logic only when there is a relative existence there.  You can prove the sweetness of a sugar by giving an experience of a relative existence.  If no other substance was sweet like sugar, then it would have been so difficult to prove the sweetness of sugar.  Like that, that is how the logic and these things go on.  

Question:   Thank You, Babaji.  That was clear.  Science denies the possibilities of miracles.  Science says no miracle is possible.  But we know from Swamiji’s life that there are many miraculous incidents.  We know personally, we have heard and seen many saints doing miracles.  So, the question is, is science wrong? 

Babaji Maharaj:   Not necessarily science itself is wrong.  A subject will never be wrong in my opinion.  A person who tries to understand through science might be wrong.  But science itself cannot be wrong.  One person can be wrong who tries to study or understand through science in his own way.  That is what it is.  Now, miracles, there is really no conclusive answer to say, “This is what is the miracle that happens, this is how it happens.”  Many experiences are there.  But one thing is true, the Ultimate Truth.  Some of the points in my opinion, as long as you do not know the technology behind it, it appears as a miracle.  Once you understand, it becomes very common.  This is one thing.  And people expect a miracle; means that which is not in the nature.  A certain thing happening in the nature, if that is made to take a U-turn and somebody performs, they call it as a miracle.  Such a thing doesn't really happen.  In spirituality, we do not go for miracles like that.  In my opinion, your efforts can bring in miracles.  

But however, it is the experience of some people, like our own Guru having had the vision of a Jangama Sage who appeared from a fruit.  And that Jangama Sage made Him to sit for tapas.  When people ask me questions, whereas Swamiji as a young boy of fourteen years saw that manifestation of Jangama Sage from the fruit, other friends of His who were also there, who were having a bath in the canal bund and playing, they did not have any vision of that.  They did not see any Jangama Sage appearing.  What they saw was the young boy was sitting a while later in lotus posture, closed eyes and meditating.  That was all they saw.  

So when I give my opinion, it is good others did not see.  But when such a vision came to that young boy, there was tremendous amount of total transformation.  A young weaver’s boy who had dropped out of the school, who did not have any spiritual training at all, went into this tapas and performed twelve years of tapas.  World saw that transformation.  A young Satyaraju becoming Shiva Balayogi.  His skin glowed, it was beautifully glowing.  Above that, amazing knowledge and wisdom came out of Him.  About the meditation technique, about mind and consciousness, all He could speak so well.  So, He used to speak to me and answer my questions.  He knew everything.  “This is what the Aatman means, Self means.  This is how the mind, this is how you have to proceed.  First achieve the silence of the mind, then the mind will become aware of itself.  You will know that mind is not the mind, it is actually the Self.”  Like that, He used to speak.  All such knowledge came out of Him.  So, this transformation, the world got to see.  So, this is how somewhere we have to accept.  

So, this is what happens.  If a vision comes, if it is stronger, we call it like a manifestation has happened, then it will transform the person.  Many people might claim that “We had the vision of God, Lord Shiva came, this came, that came.”  But if a transformation has not happened in that person, that person did not have the manifested vision, it could be only an imagination or a mental projection at the most.  So, that is what I would like to tell.  

Question:   Thank You, Babaji.  Following up on that question, not only Swamiji, but through Swamiji people also experienced miracles, for example, like bhaava samadhi.  How do we explain miraculous experience like bhaava samadhi to a scientific person? 

Babaji Maharaj:   Bhaava samadhi, these words are used.  Bhaava is the mind's feeling; samadhi going to a stillness.  Now, mind is into millions of thoughts.  When long-term devotionally they are practicing, when they used to come in contact with Swamiji during the tapas, and bhajans Swamiji used to go into meditation, such people, they used to experience a vision in their mind.  That's what they used to tell about their experience.  Others would see like some action in the body, but this would help them for their mind to become single pointed.  So, that is the truth actually.  Their mind would become single pointed, and then they would be encouraged by Swamiji that they need to meditate for longer time to achieve that naturally, to make the mind single pointed, and eventually achieve silence, then it should go introvert, realizing the Self.  That's what actually Swamiji used to tell me when I used to talk to Him about that one.  So, that's very scientific.  Like long time devotional practices makes a person to go into that one.  

Question:   Thank You, Babaji.  In the scientific method, in science, there is no concept of faith.  The science doesn't admit that there is a faith, and they always rely on, as we already said, logic, reason, evidence, proof, etc.  Whereas, Babaji has said several times that faith is necessary in a spiritual path.  So, comparing these two statements, should we take that through a scientific method we cannot go to spiritual path?  

Babaji Maharaj:   See, in my experience, you have a mind.  Whenever the mind becomes concentrated, giving up its millions of thoughts, when it becomes concentrated, it goes introvert and touches its origin, that which is recognized as the Divine.  So, then a grace can flow in.  This is what is the experience.  Just like you touch an electric wire, and it will give you electric shock.  That giving of electric shock is an automatic activity.  You touch, then it will give you shock.  In the same way, faith is taught in  bhakti marga so that your mind can become more concentrated, single pointed, and get connected to its origin.  

So, this is what is the process that has to happen.  However, it cannot be guaranteed that any one single person… it depends on that single person's total faith.  Only then a wonder can happen.  Even Ramakrishna Paramahamsa has said, all Gurus have taught, “Faith in the name of Lord can work wonders.”  Though there may not be a conclusive answer, but this is what is the process we have observed.  And definitely, it is possible.  If you develop such hundred percent faith, such things can happen; if it touches the Divinity, introverted, because mind is connected to its origin that is Divine.  But this cannot be demonstrated or explained how it happens, why it happens.  You can call it inconclusive also, it's no problem for us.  I'm just giving my opinion.  This is what can happen.  

Question:   Thank You, Babaji.  One of the most successful scientific theories is the theory of evolution.  And paraphrasing, stating it simply, evolution theory says that life originated in a single cell like bacteria, then it became multiple cells.  Then it became like marine animals, fish, and then reptiles, mammals, then monkeys, then apes, then humans.  So, like the process goes from lower beings to higher beings, lower intelligence, lower consciousness, to higher intelligence, higher consciousness.  Whereas in spirituality, we read the opposite.  Like in scriptures, we say, we read, and Babaji also has told that God created a higher consciousness first.  And from higher consciousness it progressively became lower consciousness, then originally there were, in Sanaatana Dharma you have the concept of Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, then angels, demons, then lower and lower.  And every successive generation, the mind becomes lower and lower.  So, this both seems contrary to each other.  Science says from lower to higher, whereas scriptures say from higher to lower.  How do we reconcile both of these? 

Babaji Maharaj:   The theory in the spirituality is totally different.  What you are talking through science is totally different.  There, the evolution is of the physical formation, matter formation, the physical body's formation, this thing, whereas spirituality talks of the consciousness, which becomes the mind, or these types of things; that is how it is spoken.  So, that way it is different.  So, the two don't go together actually.  Quite possible, both might be simply speculations, watching certain things that we observe.  Like in tapas, what we could observe was, only this much.  If your mind becomes more non-violent, then you can get a better elevated birth.  If your mind becomes more violent, then you can be belittling your birth.  That is because, you see, this world also appears to you based on your mental attitude.  

Like we call one man's food is another man's poison.  One might like a certain thing, the same thing may be disliked by another.  No one concept, no one phenomena will be acceptable to the entire creation or entire humanity at one given time.  Some people may accept some theory, some people may accept some theory.  Those who are following science, they will accept, it's no problem.  But finally, there is really no conclusive answer.  We have to have speculations; by observing certain things only we have to think, “This is what has happened.”  Like for example, if we see fifty years ago when we were kids, what the world was when during the Second World War and today – human thinking has deteriorated, has become more violent.  Jokingly also I have told, even in movies, a villain used to have only a knife; that used to give a dreaded feeling for the audience.  But today's children will laugh at it.  It's a bomb culture, suicide culture, these type of things and people talking of nuclear culture.  So, the thinking has deteriorated.  So, based on these only, things like the Kali yugas, all these things would have been formed.  That's what the humans are thinking.  

There used to be at one time, a verbal utterance was good enough.  Now even written agreement also, it's difficult to prove in the court of justice sometimes.  So, these things are happening.  That's what it means; the human thinking, how it is deteriorating.  So, that is different, different things.  What scientifically has speculated is the formation of the bodies and what this spirituality talks is the consciousness going into different thinking, it's elevated thinking and deteriorated thinking.  That's what we have been talking about.  

Finally, I would say in both ways, it is inconclusive.  Nobody can say.  Only with by observing certain things, we can speculate, “This is likely to have happened, likely to have happened so.”  So, like in science also, we keep reading, protons, microns, this, so many things, and they come across certain new things.  When they do not know what it is, they call it simply ‘ether’, and they try to call it ‘God Particle’ also.  Then everybody forgot about it.  Really, nobody is able to make out what the actual truth is.  Sometime a scientist was talking to me and told, Einstein had some idea, “If we need to go to the truth, we need to cross the time and space barrier.”  But he knew it cannot be demonstrated by logic.  That's when he kept quiet.  So, that could never be proved like that.  Only an individual has to prove it to himself, experience it himself.  

So, this cannot be proven ultimately.  After some time, some other theory might come; in science it keeps coming.  What hitherto humanity thought about this is not so now.  This new thing has been discovered.  New theory has come into existence.  Like this, it keeps coming.  So, nothing seems to be conclusive yet.  Even in spirituality also, we don't try to conclude to any particular theory.  Simply, we try to teach that if you cleanse your mind, quieten your mind, you can experience the Ultimate Truth of how you exist as the immortal soul.  You know yourself.  So, this is what we try to teach.  More than that, we don't get involved into any particular theories; “This is the truth.  This is how it happened.”  Nobody can tell.  Many times when people have asked me questions, “How and when did this start at all?” It is really inconclusive.  Impossible to tell how it happened.  Just like that, we have to speculate only.  Nobody can find out the truth.  That truth is such amazing wonder that you go on researching, you go on researching, something new will always come out, something new will always come out.  So, better to accept that things are really inconclusive.  

Question:   Thank You, Babaji.  In science, essentially the archaeology, they say that the earth is 4.5 billion years old.  And then the archaeologists have discovered, like dinosaurs, skeletons are 100 million years old.  Whereas human skeletons discovered are only maximum two million years old.  So, it looks like many other animals, reptiles like dinosaurs and other animals came much before humans; and humans came in last.  Again, it's very similar to the previous question, but does it mean that God created these animals first, before humans?

Babaji Maharaj:   Really, nobody knows what the truth is.  It's better not to go for these things.  You can never… you have to speculate.  When you see a certain thing, based on that, they consider the age of a stone, the age of the earth; like this they have to speculate.  They have to go into this.  Nobody was there when the creation started to tell that “I was there and I saw how God was creating.”  Nobody can tell this one.  So, it is all inconclusive.  In spirituality, we do not go for these theories and try to tell, at least in my opinion, I don't go for this.  You just, as soon as possible, when the present physical body is available, you have one chance to know your real Self.  You get rid of all the thoughts and visions that are in the mind, means the imaginations that are.  You try to cross the barrier of imagination and look for the truth of existence.  Like for one sentence, Adi Shankaracharya tells, “When you come face-to-face in your consciousness, and when that consciousness of yours is not into any type of imagination, know that existence as the truth.”  This is what spirituality teaches.  This is what we all advocate.  Go for the actual truth of your own existence.  The rest all you can keep speculating.  You can keep talking.  You can ask any teacher, any Guru.  They would not say that they don't know anything.  They would like to say, “Yeah, this is how it happened, this is how it happened.”  And the followers will have to believe it.  That is all.  

So, what we used to hear only, we used to talk.  But I have always told in my talks, finally, it is inconclusive only.  And more than that, it is important what you are.  There is one opportunity before the physical body dies.  Once the physical body dies, we lose control over ourselves.  What will happen we do not know.  That's what in spirituality also.  Students have inquired with the teacher.  Nobody has come back to tell what happened to me after death, what is the truth of the aatman, what is the truth of the Self.  So, that can be discovered through this mind, which has the consciousness of your existence, is possible when you go for that.  

So that is what is most important.  And these theories keep happening.  You can follow either through a scientist or anyone.  It's no problem.  It's all the same.  Simply terminology changes.  That is all.  Through that also whatever truth has become, people believe; it's no problem.  But it will change.  The theories will change.  So, nothing is conclusive, finally.  Nobody was there when such a thing happened.  A popular belief has to happen.  We have to speculate, “So, this is how it happened, you believe”.  Because they are telling you believe it.  So, you were also not there.  

So, there is no evidence for anything if you want to go for evidence.  Speculations are different, studying is different.  Like they tell, watching certain things, earth and its age, we try to speculate, “This is how it would have happened.”  In the same way only during tapas, watching the mind and its functions, we try to come into such theories; “This is how it can happen.  This is how the truth will be, existence.  In my observation, this is what it is.  This is my opinion.  Now you try to practice and find out the truth to yourself.”  That's what the final is.  I'm trying to be more practical.  Your questions are very good.  But I'm trying to be simply more practical.  Instead of trying to tell that “I know this and I know that one.”  Nobody knows actually.  

Question:   Thank You Babaji.  One of the most advanced science and technology today is artificial intelligence, what they call AI.  And many scientists, Nobel Prize winners, they all claim that very soon, like within the next few years, maybe even this year, next year, they will do what they call AGI, artificial general intelligence, which is like a consciousness similar to a human being, with all the intelligence and the abilities of a human being.  So, the question is Babaji, is consciousness possible to create in a computer or laboratory?

Babaji Maharaj:   I don't think so, not in my opinion.  Because consciousness never came into existence.  It has always existed.  Through consciousness, you can try to create something.  Like, anything that comes…  See, we are common people.  First, Google game, GPS came, then AI has come.  Anything.  Finally, it is the human mind which needs to use the things.  It will not tell which has not been programmed.  You talk in a strange language which it doesn't understand, it will say, “Sorry, I don't understand your language.”  Like that artificial intelligence also will tell the same thing.  Finally, what it is; all the things that are discovered and coming into existence is welcome and good.  But we need to take care of our human minds to be more under control so that we don't go into a greedy situation.  We don't go into a cutthroat competition.  We try to utilize whatever we discover as the source, or in the nature.  It can be amazing.  The speed can be amazing, the speed.  So, one time it was there; we used to travel in a bullock cart or horse-drawn chariots.  But today we are able to travel at 1000 kilometers per hour speed in the air.  More speeds they are trying to do research.  So, like this artificial intelligence has also come, and it will keep coming.  New things keep coming, faster, faster.  

You see, do you remember, first we heard about the megabytes, then gigabytes came, then terabytes came.  So, like that it keeps increasing.  Now a small thumb drive also has so many terabytes type of thing.  That increases.  So, nature is such an amazing, illusory thing.  And there is no end for these miracles.  These are all the miracles you come across and you are able to create.  But finally, it is the human mind which needs to have a control over that one.  See, we create a machinery like a railway engine or a flying machine.  But we need to have a control.  If we lose control, the same machine can become a killing machine for us, can be so dangerous.  

So, artificial intelligence is coming.  Many experts have commented also that this can create havoc in the world.  It can wipe out human efforts at all, totally.  Humans might lose their job and humans will lose using the brain also.  What fifty years ago the kids learnt of mathematics, today those children, nobody bothers about such learning things.  They simply press a button, go to calculator and this and that type of thing.  We are depending more and more on machineries.  It is coming, good, but we need to be alert how to utilize the thing that we don't become addicted, that there is no other choice for us if we do not use that one.  We should not become so addictive.  

This is what my advice is, finally.  Whatever you discover, utilize it for the use of humanity.  Like we have discovered the smartphones today, we can make a video call sitting.  All the participants might be sitting in different countries in their drawing rooms.  They are able to see me live.  I am able to see them live.  This is very good.  Through this we are utilizing, through the Zoom and all things, I am able to conduct meditation live, I am able to answer questions from wherever you are asking.  Finally, we need to understand that we should not become addicted.  

Occasionally, we used to use this one to learn good things.  To achieve certain best things, our own mind control, that we don't go into depression, we don't go into losing peace, we don't go into a stress, unhappiness.  Otherwise, youngsters talk to me, in companies they are getting squeezed out.  They are paid very good salary.  But they don't have time to look after their physical bodies.  That is having [an impact] on their eyes and brains, all these things are happening.  So, this is what we humanity, in my opinion, as we are talking about science and spirituality; spirituality, science, all should go together, respecting each other.  Because it is after all, the same human being we discover or we invent.  Whatever we have discovered or invented, it should be useful to humanity.  Useful to preserve all, look after all fellow creatures also, useful to preserve this earth, sun, like this.  Not to destroy the earth; it should be useful.  Means, that happens if your minds are under our control, if we can remain nonviolent and propagate peace for all.  If we learn to look after each other, consider about each other, whatever we have discovered, use it for the welfare of humanity.  Use it, travel at thousand kilometers  per hour, no problem, that's so good.  

But we should take care, after all it’s the machine.  If something wrong happens, if somebody does a wrong thing, a wrong thing can happen, it can be disastrous.  Let us hope the artificial intelligence will be useful to humanity, but not its destruction, or not make the humanity to go into a depression or a cutthroat competition.  That's why, both.  Spirituality teaches you how to look after your mind, how to look after it stress-free, under your control, non-violent and better focused so that you can live like a genius.  That is what is spirituality.  And so that it can help you to know yourself better.  You can know how you exist as that infinite – like the mind, the consciousness of existence, how you exist as the immortal soul.  That is possible, it should be helpful.  Then you use science, no problem, whatever you have discovered or invented, use.  We also travel by air.  Simply because I am a yogi, there is no rule that I should not be traveling in an aeroplane.  Today I am able to travel to America, conduct some classes, help people, meet them and then come back.  I am able to travel from Dehradun to Bangalore, Bangalore to Dehradun and be in different ashrams and help everybody.  Whoever wants to come and see me is possible.  That is the utilizing; utilizing is what is important.  We all need to understand.  This is the final message from me that I would like to convey.  

Any discovery, any inventions, any development through science, technology is always welcome.  But we should not forget that spirituality also is necessary.  Humanity is stressed out.  People are stressed out.  They want some peace.  They want to overcome fears.  If something is going to happen to the physical body, the fear gets created.  People are panicked, “What will happen?” That's what Adi Shankaracharya said, “Samprapte sannihite kaale, nahi nahi rakshati dukrinkarane,” “When death to the physical body occurs, it will not ask you, are you a champion of artificial intelligence, so you will be spared.”  It won't say like that.  “No, no, enough.  Come on, let's go.  It's done.”  Your body dies, finish.  So that's what happens.  That truth we should not forget; before that there is a chance, there is an opportunity to know ourselves, how we exist beyond the birth and death of the physical body.  This is what the spirituality teaches.  When it started, who started, how evolution happened, speculations can be there.  People can bring in many theories.  They can keep discussing.  We don't worry about such things much.  We don't claim that there is a conclusive answer.  We do accept that there is no conclusive answer because Divine is beyond our speculations, our understandings.  We surrender simply.  

So, science also, we convey our honors, our respects to the scientists, great spiritual giants and great giants of science all happened.  They have discovered today in medical science, so many advancements have happened; we have to appreciate.  But let humanity be benefited.  Let all creatures be able to live peacefully.  Let us try to invent such machineries which can bring in humanity together, which can bring the conflicts and wars to an end.  Let us bring out such a miracle where peace prevails upon this earth for everybody.  That's what I have always told.  If anybody can wave their hand and give peace to humanity, peace to human minds, that day I will concentrate as a miracle.  That miracle is needed.  We all need peace.  We all need the wars to end.  We keep wondering why should we keep killing each other? That should end.  You worship God.  You call God in any name you want, in any way you want.  That should be your choice.  Nobody should be imposing it.  You become a scientist.  You become anything.  It should be your choice.  It should not be an imposition.  We have to respect each other.  Scientists should try to understand spirituality in its depth and they should be able to appreciate.  They are unable to appreciate, they are actually not true scientists also.  If a spiritual yogi cannot understand science, then he is not a spiritual yogi.  There cannot be any difference.  Simply cultural differences, terminologies differ.  That is all it is.  Both have a systematic approach, both want to find the truth, what it is.  

Question:   Thank You, Babaji.  So finally, can we say that science alone cannot provide the answers to fundamental questions of fundamental problems of life and humanity?  We need spirituality for solving these fundamental problems?

Babaji Maharaj:   Yeah, definitely, that is what I was trying to tell.  You see, apart from the things that the science has created, has discovered.  That is very good.  Beautiful knowledge has come into existence.  How the earth rotates around the sun, how the sun, how the solar system, Milky ways, galaxies.  Everything is wonderful.  But humanity is undergoing depression, stress, conflicts, mistrust, dislike to each other.  One wants to outwit the other by cutting a throat.  Humans are not becoming matured, that “Let all of us live happily and peacefully.”  I would like to repeat the thing that I read in a science magazine fifty years ago as a college student, a scientist telling like this is important to understand, “Earth always has had and will have enough resources to meet the need of humanity but not its greed.”  We need to overcome the greed.  We can overcome the greed only through spirituality.  There is no such machinery that you take a smart phone and you press the button and you overcome the greed.  Things don’t happen like that.  A person is so depressed and he takes a smart phone and he presses the button and he achieves peace – it doesn't happen.  Not without suppressing the brains, you must be able to achieve peace.  That's what I'm talking.  

So, these things, spirituality only can teach you.  It naturally helps you to control the mind, make it recede without harming the health of the brain, so that you can live a normal life.  So, that's why both science and spirituality must go together.  We need to learn to respect each other.  We need to overcome conflicts; that is necessary.  We should stop talking double standards.  We should talk transparently.  Talk something now, talk some another thing; it's not the thing.  Talk what you can do.  Let's be friendly.  All humanity should achieve friendship, should be able to sit and eat peacefully.  That is what is needed.  Let us stop killing each other.  Let us not try to occupy other territories.  Whether it is a property of another person or the country of another person, let us live happily, peacefully.  

Everybody has to behave properly, you see?  Otherwise, conflicts will always continue.  If only one person tries to be good, and ten are evil, so then the good cannot prevail upon.  The good will become a victim of ten people's threats.  That's what happens.  So, this is how when saints come, they try to teach people, humanity to live peacefully, they can get killed.  Because people don't want these things to happen, peace to come.  If conflicts are happening, some people are benefited, then they want the conflicts to go on.  So, let us try to respect each other.  Let science and spirituality go together.  Let us not look down at each other.  We have to learn to respect and honor each other.  This is necessary.  That is a very great human quality.  When you are able to appreciate others, then you are a good human being.  You are overcoming the narrow-mindedness and selfishness.  You should overcome; that is necessary.  

Thank you, Prasanna.  All the questions went very well.  It gave me an opportunity to express my opinion. 

Question:   How is it possible to yearn for silence and spirituality when so much of the world is so fascinating? 

Babaji Maharaj:   When you lose peace, then you yearn for peace.  When you understand that the silence of the mind can give you peace, then you will yearn.  Till then you won't understand the value.  Only when you lose the thing, you understand the value.  So, that's when you will yearn for; automatically it will come.  So, if you understand, a silence of the mind can help you to control your own mind, keep it restrained, overcome all stress, fear, unhappiness, tension, then you will yearn for it when you understand this.  

Question:   Pranaams Babaji.  Babaji, around this topic about science and spirituality, I will just make a statement and Babaji, can You please comment on that?  In my understanding, if science is used to prove any of the elements of this world or focus on the world which is unreal, the conclusion will always be unreal, no matter how many facts we use.  And on the same way, if we focus on the real, which is eternal concepts, then they will have to be focusing on the mind.  Using the same scientific logic, but follow it through mind.  

Babaji Maharaj:   I understand.  This understanding is appreciable, but however, when we are talking of respecting each other through science also, because when you have to live in this world, through the body, though even if it is unreal also, even if it is a drama, whatever it is, in this drama, in this unreality also you need peace.  You need universal brotherhood.  You need everybody to live happily and peacefully.  Like humanity should learn to live for each other, not against each other.  So, that's what we are trying to tell.  For that thing, whatever we discover, even within this unreal world also, whatever we discover, let us make this unreal world also happy.  As long as we have to be in this unreal world, in this physical body, let us try to find happiness and peace.  So, if we take the help of spirituality, we will be able to achieve this together.  So, we have to blend.  So, instead of disliking each other, if at all there is a dream, let that dream be a happy one; like that we imagine.  So, finally, when we go for our real Self, then we will understand at that stage that we need to go for a permanent entity to obtain a permanent happiness.  That's what the teaching is.  

Same Questioner:   Okay.  Thank You, Babaji.  

Question:   Namaskaram, Babaji.  So, Babaji, when it comes to free will and destiny, you normally are biased towards free will.  So, my question is, when like any other materialistic endeavors, even in spiritual endeavors, if we are always focused on “I am doing it,” “I am achieving something,” then, isn't that boosting our ego only?  And at some point, don't we have to be humble and say that I might be putting in the efforts, but really, the grace of God coming as destiny is what really gives me the results? 

Babaji Maharaj:   You see, one thing always, say, suppose you went to academic studies and you did very well, you have achieved a degree, very good.  Throughout it’s your efforts, but when the credit comes, you would like to give the credit to your teacher, your elders or your parents who encouraged, who inspired.  So, that is what is needed.  That is the culture that gives.  So, boasting, claiming is totally different.  Putting an effort is totally different.  Putting effort is what is Purushaartha.  So, you cannot afford to sit in a corner, you put an effort, but you don't have to be boasting, you need to be humble; that is necessary.  Humility is always taught to us.  Even if we did tapas or achieved, but we would like to credit our Gurus, who inspired, who gave us the clues, who taught us what the truth is.  So, that is how we need to go; both together we have to take it.  Destiny and free will can go together.  

Question:   How do we protect the God within us?  You know, the higher Self, when we're constantly faced with what You've been talking about, the game, the evil.  So, I don't want that energy.  

Babaji Maharaj:   Listen.  Now, listen carefully.  You don't have to protect God.  You protect your mind, which has become corrupted and evil.  For that, you have to meditate, undertake spiritual exercises and control your mind.  Then it will be purified.  When your mind is purified, you would have protected your own mind.  That is what is necessary.  God will take care of God.  We don't have to worry now.  Got it?  

Question:   Pranaams Babaji.  One of the instructions in meditation is to keep the back and neck straight.  And I do realize how much we are benefited from doing this.  So, my question is, why am I still having moments in my meditation where my body drifts forward or my neck drifts forward?  And I know I'm not falling asleep because it's not a matter of me being tired.  It's just, for some reason, my body wants to pull forward and then I'll realize, “O, you need to straighten up,” so I’ll straighten up. It just seems to still happen from time to time.  

Babaji Maharaj:   In my opinion, though the brain may not be going to sleep, somewhere it is slightly tired.  So, then this thing happens.  The steady standing of the head becomes difficult if the brain is slightly tired also.  So, at that time, one thing you can do, get up, wash your face, put some water, then wash and then come back and try to sit again.  Then try to do that.  Then you will feel better, refreshing.  That's why freshness is very important.  So many things could be there; if not sleepy, the tiredness – somewhere the brain is tired.  These type of things if you take care, then it will be alright.

End of Questions and Answers

End of Session

SUMMARY

Babaji explains that science and spirituality are compatible, though they approach truth differently—science relies on evidence and logic, while spirituality emphasizes personal experience and consciousness. He discusses topics such as miracles, faith, evolution, artificial intelligence, and the limitations of scientific inquiry in addressing fundamental human problems. Babaji advocates for a balanced approach, suggesting that both science and spirituality are necessary for human well-being, peace, and understanding, and encourages respect and integration between the two disciplines.