Religion and Spirituality | In Quest of Truth - Babaji Q&A, No. 247

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Religion and Spirituality | In Quest of Truth - Babaji Q&A, No. 247
Recorded on 11 October 2025 with worldwide participants

0:00 Intro
0:14 Do religions and spirituality lead to the same goals?
9:51 How do we choose which path to adopt?
11:30 Some religions say after death there is rebirth, others say there isn't - which is correct?
21:16 Is there a heaven and is the goal of life heaven or Self Realisation?
25:26 Some religions say there is one god, in some religions there are many gods, and some say there is no god.  Which is correct?
28:34 Is god a personality sitting in heaven or is god formless?
35:14 If god is all-pervaded and transcending the forms is the goal, then how do we understand the appearance of Shiva and Parvati at the end of Swamiji's Tapas?
38:13 There are so many methods prescribed in the different religious and spiritual paths, are some better than others?
42:45 Do Yogis exist in all religions and paths?
45:08 There have been many wars fought in the name of religion - is religion actually helping or causing problems also?
46:46 So to conclude, we should focus more on the mind and meditation and leave aside all the differences in the religions and reach the goal of Self Realisation?
49:33 For those who believe that god is a particular form, have they simply not reasoned it out?
53:18 I understand that the Divinity is all-pervaded so why do we concentrate the Divinity into one form?
55:22 Why after Babaji has blessed an object, do I feel more attracted to it?
56:20 If god is pure consciousness, how can anything dark or evil come from purity?
57:26 If god is everything, why do we assume god is pure and bliss?

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Transcript

Religion and Spirituality | In Quest of Truth - Babaji Q&A, No. 247
 
YouTube link: https://youtu.be/_jD01c6DJz0

Recorded on 11 October 2025 with worldwide participants

Question:   Today, the topic is religion and spirituality. The first question, Babaji, do religions and spiritual path lead to the same goal or are they due to different goals?

Shri Babaji:   In my opinion, originally, the religion that was prescribed since ancient times and spirituality are the same. They lead to the same goal of Self-Realization, Ultimate Truth. In today's world, anybody who would listen, particularly youngsters, may wonder or become averse. Because, hardly people want to use the word ‘religion’. They all use only ‘spirituality’. In fact, my Guru also never wanted to be called a religious teacher. That means, He used to tell, “We are Yogis, we don't teach any particular doctrine of a particular group in a particular way, that one book prescribed. We talk about our own experience, about the Ultimate Truth, how to reach that goal.” That was why He wanted to use only ‘spirituality’. 

So, during our college days also, we were studying, I always used to wonder, “What is the real meaning of religion? Why was this given to us by our forefathers, or the ancient sages, or whoever it is, from where it is coming?” After I reached my Guru’s abode at the age of twenty, and in the course of learning spirituality, doing sadhana... because my Guru used to talk in a slightly different way. He used to tell, “Having born as human beings, you have triple responsibilities. One is to take care of the health of your physical body. And using this physical body, you need to take care of the health of your mind. And then, if the mind is healthier, you will be able to take care of your moral responsibilities.” 

Now, physical health, everybody easily understands. Though, very often, physical health also gets neglected. Until we reach a stage and something gets affected, some organ gets affected, we do not realize how our lifestyle or any habits was affecting us. Well, this is one thing. And now, mind. Everybody understands they have a mind. But everybody wants happiness in that mind also, knowingly or unknowingly. And we all, generally people identify themselves with a physical body. But I would tell, you are much more beyond the birth and death of your physical body. You are that Eternal Soul. Just now, your mind is preoccupied with the thoughts and visions of its own imaginations. If you can clear them, silence the mind, then you can go to your real existence as the Self, as the Ultimate Truth, as the Eternal Soul, the Supreme Consciousness of Existence. 

So, like this, using the physical body only, you can take care of the health of the mind. Mind remaining healthy means, in this world at least, what we need to understand; it should be able to think of a larger cause always. Entire world. We all are standing on the globe. So, don't we need to think that we need to keep this globe safe and in good condition? We need to behave responsibly, so that we leave this globe for the future generations, this earth, this planet earth for the future generations in a good condition. And also, our own behaviour needs to be that we should be able to consider about each other. Apart from thinking of a larger cause, that we always [say], in the same way, our ancient sages also taught the prayers, “Lokah, samastah, sukhino, bhavantu.” “Don't know how many worlds you would have created my Divine, but may all beings in all the worlds be happy.” Like that they prayed in their prayers. 

So, means, we don't simply pray for myself, or for my kith and kin and beloved ones which we talk always, but we pray for all. Without any difference, they prayed. Recognizing that gravity of energy of the Divinity, which is spread on the earth and in the sky and in the space. Like that they prayed for every energy, everything, to be at peace. This is what is the looking after; if the mind is healthier, it should be able to consider about others also. That is the moral responsibilities. Like, I keep telling, if I want to be happy, all of you also have a right to be happy. If I am hungry, all of you will also be hungry. This type of thinking, we need to understand about our fellow beings on this earth. Human beings have the well-developed brain. They need to be more responsible in their approach, in their talking, in their behaviour. So, this is what is upholding moral values. 

So, if exercises are prescribed – that's what religion means – so that we can control and uphold the health of the physical body, and using the physical body, we follow such exercises, that generally we call as religious rituals, like meditation, worship, Bhakti Marga, or any such thing, music. All these exercises, so many have been prescribed. They are all for the mind control, to keep the mind healthier, purified. It should not be selfish and narrow-minded. If we purify the mind with these exercises, of meditation, etc., then it becomes purified. It overcomes its narrow-mindedness and selfishness. It won't set any justice for itself and others. It will become more universal and better. So, then, if the mind is such purified state, it will be able to consider about all. That's what in the prayers that were taught to the Divine. They recognize that we all exist in one space. Now, we were talking of the earth, planet earth that we all exist. Is it not necessary that we keep this planet earth safe and in good condition so that we leave this world a better world for the coming generation also? We have to think of the space also. We all exist in one space, and we need to keep this space purified and understand that oneness; we all belong to each other. 

So, that is what the meaning of religion. Means, instead of disliking or being averse to the word ‘religion’, if we try to understand the word ‘religion’. Many times I have happened to address youth in different places, sometimes in colleges or temples, or anywhere, in training centres. So, I have told them this is the real meaning of religion. It is a phenomenon where various exercises are prescribed so that you can keep your physical health, mental health, and moral health intact. If you are practicing these three things, then you are a real religious person. The rest is all rubbish. Then I have asked, “Now you think, do you want to be a religious person or not?” So, this is what I understood by my Guru's teachings. 

Spirituality nowadays, in the recent times, ‘spirituality’ word has come. This specifically talks of the study of the Self, our own Self, which is in the spirit form as an infinite existence. It appears to be like a space, empty space, but it is not empty space. It is supremely consciousness of its existence. To study, become aware, do sadhana, gain that awareness, understand, is the spirituality. If we do the religion in the right sense, also we will come to the same place. So, that is what is needed in my opinion, that we try to understand religion in its right sense, not for our selfish purpose, not to control communities, not to belittle any race or any caste or anything. All are equal. 

Same Questioner:   Thank you, Babaji. So, if one were to start now in this path, there are so many religions, so many religious paths, so many spiritual paths. So, the question is how do we choose which one to adopt? 

Shri Babaji:   From childhood, if you have been in a particular religion, you can continue with that one. All you need is, you need to try to understand the religion in its right sense, in this time. See, any religion means it should teach non-violence, peace for all, happiness for all, equality to all, everybody to be recognized on merit, not on any other things. Not on caste, religion or things. That’s how our Guru respected all religions as equal and honourable. So, if a person has misunderstood the religion, if that person is going to teach, he will definitely teach wrong things about religion. So, you should try to understand this. Then you can choose any religion, it's yours. Or you just don't want to be religious in the name of religion. If you think that religion is misused, misinterpreted, just to do meditation and take care of the health of the physical body, take care of the health of the mind, just be a good human being, and uphold moral values. That is the best religion. 

Same Questioner:   Thank you, Babaji. So, while looking at some religions, some say there is only one life and at the end of the life it is over. And there is nothing beyond that, no more lives. And some religions say there is life after life, there is rebirth, cycle of birth and death happens. So, which is correct? 

Shri Babaji:   I would not go into opinion about other religions. I am not any authority. I would talk based on my experience in tapas. Definitely, there is a rebirth, just like this birth has happened to you. A body has come into existence. A rebirth can happen. How; I will try to explain the techniques, technologies that is involved. See, this world appears to you based on your mental attitude. Means, this world may appear good to some people, bad to some people, very beneficial to some people, useless to some people, like that, depending on their attitude, whatever they think, it appears to be. If they are used to look for the company of noble and good people, they will see, “I can see only noble people around the world.” If they are used to seeing bad people and negative, they always get to see negativity in people, negative people, “O, everything is negative, this is bad,” like that. 

So, like that, the mind recognizes the worlds, any matter, or any scene, and analyses, like “This is good”, “This is bad”, “This is mine”, “I don’t want this”, any such thing. Hundreds of thoughts will come. And then it makes a judgment, “Yes, this is good”, This is apple”. Like I keep telling, even Yoga Vasistha talks, “Based on the thinking of the mind, a friend might appear as a foe, a foe might appear as a friend.” It's all in the mind, mind's thinking. So, like that, when the mind thinks and makes a judgment, it absorbs an imprint also. So, that becomes the attitude or acquired habit of the mind. So, based on that only, a person's attitude builds and he gets to see the world. Means if fifty people are there, you ask their opinion. Fifty people may have fifty types of opinions about this world. A poet may have his own opinion, a scientist may have his own opinion, a spiritual leader may have his own opinion, like that so many people, ordinary people may have their own opinions. So, like this, everybody will have. 

So, now, when death happens, brain dies. Brain is holding all memories, everything there. Brain helps the mind for a thought or a vision, which is in the subconscious state as an acquired habit to get decodified and shows it as a visual effect, a vision, or a thought process, a thought that appears. So, with the death of the brain, all memory, everything is lost, finished. But mind is your conscious energy. It is holding those habits in the subconscious state. Based on that, in the last moments when the brain is dying, it spins very fast. And then intensity of thoughts form. As it gets detached from the brain when the brain dies, after that it assumes its next birth, based on its attitude. That's why we tell, if you are more positive, you can be shaping a positive destiny for yourself. If you are negative, you can be shaping a negative destiny for yourself. People can observe their mind. The mind tries to imagine about itself as suffering, and people sympathizing, “Oh poor man, why every wrong thing is happening.” It wants sympathies. That also the mind enjoys. But that is wrong thing. We don't have to suffer. If we suffer mentally, we visualize, the same thing can happen. So, we need to think positively always. 

So, whatever the mind thinks, it gets to see. So, like that only the birth happens. Now, in our spirituality, or the practices that we teach like meditation, a liberation is recommended so that you can go back to your Real Self. Because everybody is knowingly or unknowingly looking for peace and happiness. But the peace really descends only when the mind is at peace. Not till then. If the mind is not at peace, nobody can enjoy peace. Even if one is in a palace, or on the moon, or anywhere, nobody can enjoy peace. It is all in the mind. But how will this mind become peaceful? It needs to become contented. Only when it realizes and merges with its Real Self. That's when Self-Realization happens, then it gets liberated. For whatever stressful, unhappiness, or judgments, impressions that it is carrying, through those impressions only, mind has binded itself into opinions, into attitudes, into looking into the world, or people, any such thing, that person. Many people may have different attitudes. You will see some people try to be negative only in everybody. They try to talk negativity. They try to make big issues. That becomes the nature of the person. They cannot help themselves, raking up some issues and doing something like that one. Otherwise, if people can meditate, they can overcome all these effects. 

So based on this only, the rebirths happen. The recommended goal is… because once you are born, life on this earth is a mixture. No one thing can be guaranteed. If there is happiness, unhappiness also follows. If unhappiness is there, happiness also follows. That is why liberation was taught. Once for all, you want to get rid of this one. Like, as a child, same thing comes again. I used to think, “If the happiness is there, it should be twenty-four hours and twelve months. Why the fluctuation? Is there something wrong in me, something wrong in the world? Why sometimes I feel that fear? Why sometimes I am excited? What is this?” So, this is how it is. If the mind gets to see the world, seeing the world, it always jumps into duality. The mind, when it starts thinking, it cannot remain in one thing. It jumps to dualities. 

Like, early morning when you get up, sometimes if it is peaceful, the mind, suddenly if it starts thinking, it tries to imagine pleasant things. Nobody wants unpleasantness. But as the day passes by, it jumps into pleasant, unpleasant, happiness, unhappiness, all. The mind, this world is made up of dualities. As long as the mind operates, it operates based on dualities only. That is how for the mind also, in this world, one becomes important because of the other. If you have experienced unhappiness, then happiness becomes so important. If you have lost the peace, then that peace value you will understand. If you have not experienced anything, you won't even understand the value of peace. Just like if you have not earned it with the hard work, you won't understand the value of money, our elders used to say. In the same way, peace is also such a valuable thing. Only if you have hard earned that peace, then you understand the value. 

So, that is how these things go on in my tapas experiences. This is my opinion. A rebirth happens as long as you are unable to stop your mind. It keeps giving you birth and death. Whereas, it is the body which is born and which dies. Mind, self is never born actually. You are not born, but your body is born, but you experience as if you were born and you are going to die. This effect you can overcome by practicing spiritual sadhana, meditation and bhakti margas. Then you can get liberated from the cycle of birth and death. Because in which a total peace or happiness is not guaranteed in this world. So, if you go back to the Self, to Divinity, the Real Peace at all times is there. Contentment comes. That is how a Yogi enjoys peace and contentment at all times. These are some of the points in my opinion based on my experience. 

Same Questioner:   Thank you, Babaji. Just following up on that question, Babaji just now mentioned the recommendation is to go for Self-Realization. So, we can say that the goal of life is attaining Self-Realization. But some religions propose that the goal of life is heaven. And the ultimate is after this life, after death, you attain heaven. Also in scriptures, we read that some warriors die in battle, they go to heaven. In Mahabharata, it says Yudhishthira went to heaven. And we have gods in heaven, etc. So, first of all, two questions. First is, is there is something called heaven, and is the goal of life heaven or Self-Realization?

Shri Babaji:   In my opinion, everything depends on the mind; hell and heaven. You imagine, you visualize, you get to see the same scene. But if you simply, you and your God, think about God, Divinity, the All-Pervadedness, the purity, so, then you attain the Self-Realization. That is what the recommended goal, without bothering any such thing. Even in our religion also, if you see in the mythological stories or anything, heaven is also said as not permanent. As long as the fruits of your karmas are there, you are in the heaven. Once the fruits are over, you are pushed back to the world, they say in the stories. That means it is not a permanent thing. It is impermanent. Means, to discourage people, any such visualization, or attainment, or wanting to attain is all temporary. Only the Divine is the permanent, Supreme Consciousness, Supreme Being. The devotional path is recommended. Meditation is recommended. That’s how ancient sages practiced meditation and tapas and attained Self-Realization. That is the original, our religious aim, or the purpose that was taught in Rigvedic eras or much before also, and also the aim of the spirituality, if you want to say that word, whatever it is. That is only recommended. 

If you see, some great Self-Realized Masters teachings, like we were influenced by Adi Shankaracharya, Ramakrishna Paramahansa, Ramana Maharish, they all have recommended Self-Realization only, not heaven or hell. These things have nothing to do. They are all in the imaginations. If you imagine, you will get to see. This world also, if we behave responsibly, we can make this world like a heaven for everybody. Whole world, I am talking. If we are irresponsible, don't behave properly, the same world, we can make it like a hell. See the conflict zones, war zones, innocent people getting trapped and killed. It's like hell and heaven for them, hell. 

So, that is how these things happen. I would recommend not to visualize either hell or heaven. Just visualize the Divinity, practice meditation, bhakti marga, sadhana. Then you can achieve that Supreme Consciousness of Existence. You can merge with the Divine. That is contentment, supremely peaceful. That is the purest existence, Vimalam Achalam Gagana Sadrisham. A Yogi has become like the purest form of sky. He is pure like a sky. His consciousness is totally pure. So, like that, He is composed. Vimalam Achalam, like this, unmoved. So, that status is recommended. That's what I would recommend. 

Same Questioner:   Thank you, Babaji. Just now, Babaji mentioned Divinity, or if you say as God, some religions say that there is only one God. Some religions, there are many gods. Some religions, in some forms of Buddhism, they say there is no God. So, which is correct, Babaji? 

Shri Babaji:   There is one existence, all-pervaded, one single Self. That is recognized as Divinity. Because if we adopt that remembrance, or meditation in our mind, all our sins and unhappiness will be washed away. Why – all our other thoughts and visualizations will be washed away. Sins means we have come long way in illusion from our Real Self; we can go back to our Real Self. So, that's what happens. So, that one thing is recognized as God. So, one God, so many names. Different religions may recognize in different names. When there is only one thing that exists. Jokingly, also I have told, thank God, luckily there is only one God. If there were so many gods, they would have been fighting for supremacy. That's why God is one thing where there is no conflict. He is totally contented, at peace. The rest, all are fighting for supremacy and security, including the angels, boongels, whoever it is. Always it is happening, but once you merge with the Divine, all conflict ends there. So, that is what Bhagavad Gita also teaches. That's what Shri Krishna taught. So, that's what is recommended. 

So, without going into any such thing, remember. As Swamiji said, my Guru, you can worship and believe God in any form or formlessness, that is no problem. It is your choice. That is the greatness of our religion, Hinduism. It is liberal. You can call God in mother's name or father's name, or Shiva, or Vishnu, or Rama, or Krishna. Anything, is no problem. It's your choice. But simply, He used to say, do not condemn others' beliefs. Let them have their choice. This space, this room is void with space. Another wants to come and call, “No, no, this room is filled with space.” Both are correct. There is no need to fight. Simply, that's it. Like that if we all live, respect each other. So, you want to call Rama, no problem. You want to call Krishna, no problem. Anything, let us live, respecting each other. Then the harmony is there. Simply, that is what is needed. Difference; everything is there. Every physical body is different. It cannot be one physical body. But simply we need to respect and love each other. That's what is needed. 

Same Questioner:   Thank you, Babaji. Some paths or some religions claim God is a personality sitting in heaven, others, Babaji talks about formlessness, formless God. So, which is a more correct interpretation? 

Shri Babaji:   You see, I have also told God is not one human type of personality who is sitting in the space. Because that thing couldn't have been all-pervaded. A certain thing is all-pervaded means it has to be beyond form and formlessness; formless and any recognition – only then it is all-pervading. See, the things that are in the mind cannot occupy the whole of mind. But mind itself is all-pervaded. This is the clue I am giving for the Divine and the matter. Matter cannot be all-pervaded at one time. It can occupy only one space, a limited space, that which you can measure always. But the space itself is simply all-pervaded. It cannot be two different things. That is the oneness. That oneness you can call in any name. That Divine can come in any form, manifest any form. That is known as the manifestation. Not that it will always exist as a human form only. But the Divine can manifest in that form. So that’s what it is. That’s what is the Bhakti Marga, that is the thing. Like though in Hinduism so many forms are also worshiped, they are all the manifested forms. That is why you can worship. But finally, you have to reach that Ultimate Truth. You cross the barrier of both form and formlessness. 

Sometimes different groups keep arguing that He is formless, that He is form. Both do not know what the truth is. Simply both depend on a belief system and make it their ego and try to belittle the other. Nothing; either form or formless, both are okay. You want to worship either way, but don't criticize the other. It is both. Great saints who are Self-Realized have taught, like Ramakrishna, God is both form and formlessness. That's what Swamiji also use to tell, “You can believe in any form or formlessness. Don't condemn others’ beliefs. Let them have their choice.” But because it is all-pervaded, like the space is all-pervaded, the thing that is all-pervaded, it is up to you in which way you want to address it. You want to address it ‘zero’, or you want to address it ‘absolute’. If a thing is round, it has no beginning and no end. Like the space has no beginning and no end. So, what do you want to address? It is up to you. Or if you don’t want to address, just keep quiet. 

This thing in our scriptures also, some scriptures like Yoga Vasistha, they have tried to explain. I also keep telling this way; this is my pet example I have always given – call this room is filled with space or void with space, it is the same. So, this existence is there. You want to call it existence or non-existence. You want to call, “It is there”, or you want to call, “It is not there,” because nothing appears to be there. If you are imagining this to be a void place, then nothing appears to be there. If you imagine this to be something, then something is there. That is how actually Buddha Himself did not teach any one formula. Anatman or Atman, He did not tell anything. Many times He used to observe silence when people asked Him. Like one time somebody asked, “Is there a God?” He kept quiet. “Does it mean that there is no God?” He said, “When did I say so?” So, like that, He didn’t tell. He realized; the truth is like that, ultimately you cannot define, “This is the thing”. It can be either this or that. That is the beauty of the existence. 

So, you cannot tell either this or that. “It is only form”, also foolish people. They don't know anything else. They talk of their form also as everywhere, “My God is everywhere”, whichever form. Like for example, Rama or Krishna devotees, they talk “My Krishna is everywhere.” If the Krishna is everywhere, everything has to be Krishna. Why do you want anybody else to come to Krishna only? Then you are recognizing that as other than Krishna. If it is other than Krishna, means, what I am trying to tell, once a person came, he told, “Our Krishna is all-pervaded, you come and surrender.” Mai bola [I said], “I’m a disciple or Shivabalayogi” “No, no, Shivabalayogi cannot be everywhere.” “That means you are telling that Krishna is also not everywhere because you are recognizing Shivabalayogi, or, you agree that Krishna and Shivabalayogi are same?” Then he smiled with me and he gifted me a Krishna painting, way back in late seventies in Dehradun ashram one person had come. He became friendly, then he was sitting with me, he was discussing with me, “The thing is, you tell that your God is all-pervaded, so that means everything else also is your God, you recognize it as your God. Why do you differentiate, “This is not my God, only this is God?” Then you tell again, “That is all-pervaded.”” They themselves fail miserably in their own statements. 

So, if it is God is everywhere, it cannot be different, different. Whatever way you want to worship Ramakrishna, I will worship Shivabalayogi. Both of us are doing the same thing. There is no conflict in these things. The one who would have realized this truth will never have any conflict. I will never have any objection if anybody else wants to recognize God in any other name. For me, that name, that form also is my Shivabalayogi, that's it. I don't have ego that everybody has to worship in this name, in this form only, because it is everywhere, it is the same thing. 

Same Questioner:   Thank you, Babaji. And therefore, what we see is that from Swamiji's life story, we know that at the end of tapas, Shiva and Parvati manifested to Swamiji. So, if God is not a personality, and God is all-pervading, and at the end of the goal is you have to transform the forms and become the all-pervadedness, how do we understand the appearance of Shiva Parvati at the end of tapas? 

Shri Babaji:   See, I have heard this from Swamiji Himself. He was woken up from samadhi, somebody was hitting on His laps. Then when He saw a dazzling glowing light, it took a moment for Him to see a type of man, and a woman, they both were standing. That's what He said. Then He said, “Until now only, Jangama Sage used to appear, what is this man and woman?” Then the man smiled and said, “In this world, people recognize us as Shiva, and this is my consort, Parvati. So, your tapas is ending, it is finished. Nirvikalpa has come to you. So, that's why we have just manifested because of your previous resolutions, to bless you and to tell you that your tapas is finished. Now you can go anywhere, you do anything, whatever you want.” Swamiji's consciousness had become pure, means it was no more mind, there was no more desire. He said, “I don't know, I don't have any such desire to go and do business now. It is all disappeared, it's all gone. But as long as this body is alive, I will be happy to do if you want me to do anything in this world.” Then Shiva only said, “Teach the same meditation that which you practiced, without any difference of caste, creed, status, or age or anything, initiate everyone, anybody can learn. People have forgotten about themselves, that is why they are miserable.” This sentence also Lord Shiva said. And then they merged with Swamiji's physical body. That's what Swamiji used to tell. So, this also I asked, “Self-Realization is always explained in scriptures also, the mind getting absorbed into the Self, merging with the Self.” Swamiji in one, quickly, immediately retorted, “Hey, if the droplet falls to the ocean also is the same. Or if the ocean flows on the droplet and engulfs, it is the same, they become one. There is nobody, neither devotee nor a God, it all disappears. There is oneness.” 

Same Questioner:   Thank you, Babaji. The next question, we know that there are so many paths, so many religions, so many methods prescribed. Are some better than the others? Is there like a hierarchy, or a difference, and some are better and some are worse?

Shri Babaji:   In my opinion, there is no such thing. It is the marketing thing, the half-baked beans, they do like that one. “My path is the only right thing, my path is the only right thing.” Simply, if every seeker can understand one important thing; mind is the real gateway through which you can become aware of that Real Self and merge with that. Because the Ultimate Truth of the mind is recognized as the Divinity or Supreme Consciousness. Understand the mind first. Nobody has seen the mind in naked eyes. Only based on thoughts and visions everybody recognize they have a mind. They tell, “My mind wants to do this, wants to go there.” Nobody can show mind’s shape, or mind’s colour, or any such thing. It appears to be nothing. If you ask them, they will be bewildered, “What is this mind itself?” “Don't know, only thoughts appear, visions appear, and visions disappear.” 

So, like this only people have experience. But if we try to know this mind itself. For a clue, the basic idea, it is the combination of consciousness and energy. That is what the sages also give the concept of Shiva and Parvati. Actual meaning of Shiva is your existence in thoughtlessness state. Where it is neither form nor formlessness. Like that. And Shakti is Adi Parashakti. Because all the Sanaka, Sananda, the Yogis, it is said to have prayed to that energy always, to assume the form of Bhuvaneshwari, mother goddess, who can be compassionate. That concept of mother is the highest in creation, who can become compassionate to the creation, unconditionally forgive the creation, and give them salvation. So, like that is known as Adi Parashakti, the original world. Adi is ‘the first’. Parashakti; ‘invincible, invisible, energetic force’. So later on, hundreds of names of Bhuvaneshwari and so on and on and on and on and on, any name you can address the Divine Mother. So, this is the concept of Shiva and Shakti. So, they both are infinite form. 

So Ultimate Truth of the mind is that Divinity. So, if the mind is in existence, it keeps imagining and remains away from its Real Self. If it becomes quiet, it goes and merges into the Self, giving Self-Realization and Liberation, Mukti, Moksha, whatever you want to call, Nirvana. Different religions might have used different terminologies. Kingdom, is all the same. In the true sense, if one tries to understand the religion, any religion, anything, there is really no difference. Simply terminologies might differ, language might differ, whatever is prevailing in that area, that would have come into existence, that is all. If one understands in its right sense. Because we all read Ramakrishna Paramahansa's life, He also practiced every religion in its right sense and achieved the Realization. Then He only said through every path you can reach the Truth. Through every religion also you can reach the Truth. That is possible, as a man, as a woman, as this, as that religion, this religion, any religion. So, there is no difference at all. 

Same Questioner:   Thank you Babaji. If as Ramakrishna said, we can actually reach God in many religions and many paths, do Yogis or Self-Realized masters exist in all religions, all paths? We often hear Self-Realized masters only in some religions, or in some particular paths. We don't hear Yogis or Self-Realized masters in other religions or other paths. How does He understand both the things? 

Shri Babaji:   Maybe in the present day we may not get to hear such coming into the societies. They might have had been in every religion. Some saintly people, saints in all religions have happened in different parts of the world from time to time have come, different. We consider them as yogis. In their religion they may consider as something else. So, like that it might be there, but today we may not get to hear. But that is why this parampara, lineage, if it is respected and goes on. 

See, in our culture, in Indians, a monk, a saint is always respected. Even if a person is not on the spiritual path also, they just try to wish and greet or do pranam, and try to respect, maximum. This is what is my experience of travelling also. So, if this is there. So that’s why this parampara is continuing. People doing sadhanas. I hope people will undertake sadhana and do tapas. The recent times, not very long ago, 1949, Swamiji was initiated and He performed twelve years tapas and became a Yogi. So, there might be anywhere. We don't try to criticise other by taking names of other gurus. There can be gurus who could be half-baked beans claiming to be gurus. And there can be real gurus also. We don't know. Sitting here, it is not possible for us to make any judgments or comments. So, it may be, it may not be. This point is like that. 

Same Questioner:   Thank you, Babaji. If you look at, basic history, religion has been a source of conflicts. There has been a lot of wars. People have been killing each other in the name of religion. There is bloodshed. Even today, we hear a lot of wars, conflicts going on with different religions as a main cause. Is religion actually helping or actually causing some problems also? 

Shri Babaji:   It is the human nature. They need some small excuse to go into a conflict; to want to control their communities, they raise such things. In olden days we used to get to hear a piece of land would become a conflict, a reason for a conflict, or some wealth used to become a reason for conflict, or women, or any such thing. Different sayings we used to get to hear. Now, we get to hear the name of... if somebody is raking up an issue or wants to fight with others in the name of religion, so this is how these things are happening. Uneducated people. This we also recognize as prejudicial, very quickly getting a short temper and annoyed and kill the other person. This is not good. We all need to understand each other. So, this is human irresponsibility, uneducation, not properly getting educated in their character or culture. That could be the reason. 

Same Questioner:   Last question, Babaji. From all teachings, the take away I have is we should focus more on the mind, meditation, and leave all the differences in the religions so that we reach the goal of Self-Realization as Babaji recommended. Would Babaji like to comment on this? Is it the right interpretation? 

Shri Babaji:   Yeah, as I have tried to interpret myself also clearly, the mind, what religion the mind is. Mind belongs to everybody, and it is the same mind. Simply it has picked up different thinking type using the brain. So that's why things appear to be different. If everybody can meditate, if everybody's mind can become purified, everybody learns to simply look after the health of their body, health of their mind, and uphold moral values of consideration to each other. Like I have many hundred times repeated a scientist’s words, sentence, fifty years ago I read in a science magazine, “This earth always has had and will have enough resources to meet the need of humanity but not its greed.” So, if we understand this principle, then everybody can be happy, live beautifully. God has given this beautiful earth but we are making this earth as a conflict things unnecessarily. Because if we want all the twelve bananas like Swamiji’s saying, we need to allow others also to eat. Let all of us enjoy and be at peace. That is necessary. 

That's what my opinion is. I would appeal to all to take up this meditation, every day practice at least one hour, then you will know about yourself. You will become better aware of what the mind, how the mind can behave like a devil's workshop, or like a Divinity. All the things lies in the purity of the mind, how it can think of a larger cause, consideration, “May all the beings in all the worlds be happy”, not simply pray. If we all take up sadhana only then we will become eligible. We gain that ability to love and honour each other. This is what is needed, that humanity learns to live for each other, not always against each other. 

Question:   Namaste Babaji. We talked about different religions, different paths and all that. But there are also different philosophies like dualism, non-dualism. And non-dualism, which I subscribe to, and I feel are in sync with your teachings. But I meet people who are are dualists, who are like Hare Krishna movement people, who will argue that there are many atmas, and there is one paramatma, and the atmas cannot merge with the paramatma. Whereas the non-dualists give the example of the drop and the ocean merging, you know, and losing the identity. So, does it mean that they have not reasoned it out enough to come to that conclusion for non-dualism? 

Shri Babaji:   Yeah. See, that's what even while Prasannaji was asking this type of question, we were trying to make, reason it out; if they believe in God, a form God like Krishna, and they also propagate that that Krishna, Kana kana me hey, He’s all pervaded. If that Krishna is all-pervaded, how can there be anything else other than Krishna? Logically also, if you are even a science student also, you think, if God has to be all-pervaded in one particular name also, how can there be anything else other than Krishna? If other than Krishna exists, then that means at that place Krishna is not there. If Krishna is the one who is holding all those people, this Krishna and that who is not Krishna, then that is that one-ness we are talking. That is the non-duality we are talking. 

Same Questioner:   But I find that those people are not willing to even take this logic into consideration because they are so brainwashed. Talking about Self-Realization, I feel that a person who has had Self-Realization is very, very unique to them in their experience so nobody can really understand except the person who had it. 

Shri Babaji:   I agree with you. You are right. This is what happens, but when they make it an ego issue then they don't want to accept, agree also, they don't want to see reason. We tell “Bhai, you are educated …”, “No”, they don't agree. Like that is what happens. 

Same Questioner:  So, ultimate is the devotion; you can express your devotion in any which way, but the important thing is to have the devotion?

Shri Babaji:   Yes, that is important, and finally the same oneness of the Divinity will inspire them to go to that Ultimate Truth also. So, like that, that will happen, like for Ramakrishna story happened in the same way. One time in some birth they will also be blessed. 

Same Questioner:   So, it is better not to argue with them. 

Shri Babaji:   Yeah, time-waste, energy-waste. What to do. 

Same Questioner: Okay, thank you. 

Question:   Pranams Babaji, it’s nice to see you. Okay, so obviously I understand that the Divinity is all pervasive and you know it is in the essence of everything. So why do we do such rituals, or if you could explain a little bit more maybe the true meaning of something like a Prana Pratishtha? Why are we calling the concentrated Divinity to one form, to one piece?

Shri Babaji:   You see, it is a very simple thing. One form actually symbolizes the Divine that is all-pervaded. Because mind is used to sound and sight of this world. Any sound or sight means ‘scene’. So, it wants to see something. If we show the space, it is used to imagine the space as if nothing, a void place. Then it won't accept, “Oh how can this space be? There is nothing here.” So, for that case this example has to be given so that the mind can become single pointed. 

Just like I keep giving the example of space, in the primary school our teacher said, “The void place in-between these two walls is known as space.” And as we grew, we went to a high school, college, then we understood the same space that was in our classroom of my birthplace is everywhere. So that is the knowledge that needs to grow through this worship also. One should not simply remain there only. Remember that that is simply a symbol, but that God is everywhere in everything. So that's how that knowledge has to grow. Otherwise, you see, if I tell, “The space exists only in the classroom of my birthplace,” then everybody will laugh today. So that is the idea. 

Same Questioner:   So, say for a certain object like this vigraha here that Babaji has personally blessed, or a small lingham that Babaji has blessed, why after that blessing happened, why do I feel more attracted, or feel like there is more here now than before? 

Shri Babaji:   This is known as a prarabdha. Vasistha talks in his Yoga Vasistha. Prarabdha means destiny. Because whatever the earlier practice from childhood it was coming, that will remain as a habit. It won't go easily. So, it is no problem. You can continue with that and meditate. 

Question:   Pranams Babaji. In our religions it is said that everything is God, both good and evil. If God is pure consciousness and bliss, then how can anything dark or evil come from purity? 

Shri Babaji:   You see, everything is definitely God, but your imagination is the problem. So based on that only, in this world, when an illusion is happening, whatever is good is good, whatever is bad is bad, in this drama. But once the drama is over, it is all one God. Like people enact, a hero becomes a hero on the cinema, a villain becomes a villain. But out of the drama they might be good friends and villain might be the very good person. Like that only it is a drama, illusion that is happening, but the Divinity will be revealed when you meditate and your mind becomes purified, gives up all thoughts and visions, then you will realize. 

Same Questioner:   Thank you, Babaji. Also, if God is everything, then why do we assume that God is only pure and bliss? 

Shri Babaji:   Everything is actually pure. It is we who we have made in our imagination and in our behaviour impure and all such things. This world is of duality always. Our mind imagines both. So, this will go only when you practice meditation and realize that truth, then you get to see the same truth everywhere. Then your mind will not make any judgment at all.

End of Session